rolling lightly

[Craig Murray]

I think you should be putting out 80%-100% when rolling or drilling a few times a week IMO.

Wow, 100% multiple times a week? That seems like a lot to me, but I'm a newbie in JJ so I don't have nearly the experience you do. You're the highest ranked guy to comment in this thread so far.

But that would never fly in TKD. If you tried it, your team would have zero competitors cause everyone would be recovering from broken jaws, broken orbitals, and concussions. I know JJ is "the gentle art", but JJ forums, including this one, are literally filled with threads about injuries. Generally not head trauma, but knees, neck, and spine complaints are rampant.

Also don't leave your health in the hands of your opponent, when I enter competitions I am forced with a choice Break your arm, or not (and maybe lose because I was being nice) and Let my arm break or tap.

Personally I would rather lose than break a guys arm. I guess my question is, isn't there some grey area in there? I mean if you really wanted to break a guys arm in competition, seems like you could get that done. There must be a middle ground between "being nice" as you put it, and trying with 100% intention to wreck the guy's elbow.

Even Eddie in his recent match with Royler was not going 100% on that vaporizer at first, and even asked Royler if he wanted to stop. Only when Royler wanted to be all tough-guy did Eddie appear to crank down on that as hard as he could. So if the masters are trying to "be nice" to each other in an internationally recognized event with so much reputation on the line, it seems like Joe Blow Whitebelt competing in a local tournament doesn't need to be busting his competition up.

[Arman Fathi]

Full disclosure: My first tournament was this past weekend and my first roll in that tournament was a shock. Felt like the dude wanted to kill me. So a little more hard rolling with big dudes would have helped.

Even though I don't compete much, I've started to get used to guys with a brutal pace by going w/ MMA fighters in the gym. I've found that with very little exception, they are looking to grind your face off, break your arm/choke you out, and SMASH. Not that it's ever ill-intended or we're not friendly before/after, but I would never have the balls to say to a guy that fights MMA for a living that 'hey, that's not cool how you grinded my face like that.' For example, I had a chance to roll with Jake Shields a few days before his last WSOF fight where he won by rear naked choked. He did the same choke to me in sparring, except maybe a little bit more of a face grind with his wrist. Do you REALLY think I was gonna tell this dude that it wasn't cool? A black belt that's fought extensively in the UFC? So I guess it's all relative...but I get excited for a sparring session like that. Not every day or even every week, but once in a while if you go with a much higher level guy that literally makes a living whooping ass, it's not a bad idea to use those as the pivotal moments in your journey for developing toughness. I don't think I've walked away from a sparring session where I felt I had gotten more tough than those 6 minutes right there. Again, probably not every day, but it's good to experience that once in awhile. If the dude fights MMA, I'm all for it but just remind myself that shit might get a little more real than I'm used to, and it's all good. Just another $0.02 of mine

[DaddyBaresi]

I think that in order to have the right mindset for a comp then you have to roll hard. But you can always agree this with whoever you're rolling with.

Personally I mix it up. If I have a comp coming up, I will try and find other people of a similar level, who are also competing and we will roll hard. However if I am at a regular session then I will tailor how I roll based on my opponent and/or what I want to achieve (work on a specific sweep/sub/pass).

[Nick Paul]

When you get more experience, try rolling lightly/using a lot less strength with the less experienced guys. When you're starting out you're not really smooth enough to take advantage of your training partners mistakes with pure technique. We all start out a little clumsy and making mistakes all over the place. You'll learn not to muscle everything through time on the mat. Until then, I think you should be competitive with the other guys. And about the white belt thing, most guys who train purely no gi outside of the 10th planet systems are still "white belts" so its not always an indicator of skill level

[Rhys]

And about the white belt thing, most guys who train purely no gi outside of the 10th planet systems are still "white belts" so its not always an indicator of skill level

+1

[John Mejia]

Wow, 100% multiple times a week? That seems like a lot to me, but I'm a newbie in JJ so I don't have nearly the experience you do. You're the highest ranked guy to comment in this thread so far.

But that would never fly in TKD. If you tried it, your team would have zero competitors cause everyone would be recovering from broken jaws, broken orbitals, and concussions. I know JJ is "the gentle art", but JJ forums, including this one, are literally filled with threads about injuries. Generally not head trauma, but knees, neck, and spine complaints are rampant.



Personally I would rather lose than break a guys arm. I guess my question is, isn't there some grey area in there? I mean if you really wanted to break a guys arm in competition, seems like you could get that done. There must be a middle ground between "being nice" as you put it, and trying with 100% intention to wreck the guy's elbow.

Even Eddie in his recent match with Royler was not going 100% on that vaporizer at first, and even asked Royler if he wanted to stop. Only when Royler wanted to be all tough-guy did Eddie appear to crank down on that as hard as he could. So if the masters are trying to "be nice" to each other in an internationally recognized event with so much reputation on the line, it seems like Joe Blow Whitebelt competing in a local tournament doesn't need to be busting his competition up.

I absolutely hate hurting people, In the gym I'm the first person to apologize for submitting them, even when I know I was super gentile. The first words out of my mouth are "are you ok". So I don't want you thinking I'm some crazed juiced out submission cranking fiend lol.

I've always looked at life this way and when I played (Fought/enforcer type) hockey. It's either you or me, that kill or be killed mindset keeps you safe in a way that it's hard to explain. Essentially it's self preservation.

I think at the point your at now, which is you do jiu jitsu because it's awesome, You do jiu jitsu because its a good work out, and because its challenging. However once you've crossed over into the competition side of things where you want to be at the top of the podium, you want to be the best in the world, you have to flip a switch.

Going hard in the gym 100% could be, 100% technique, 100% Strength, 100% pressure, 100% speed, 100% offense, 100% defense, 100% passing. I think I should have clarified that better. Don't rip, pull and crank submissions 100% in the gym (That's how people get fucked up.) But pressure, speed, technique when live rolling should always try to be as close to 80-100%. Jiu jitsu unlike any striking art is ended by tapping out. You can't live spar muay thai 5 days a week at 100%, or your fight life will be cut abruptly short.

The first year of jiu jitsu is just learning how to survive. Once you've figured out how to survive submissions like (Triangle chokes, Omoplatas, Arm bars, Kimuras, Americana's, Guillotines, Arm Triangles) you'll know your threshold.

Jiu Jitsu although translated to the gentile art is far from it. I think there's tons of beauty and grace in it which could be associated with being gentile, however every time I've rolled with someone it's been far from it. LOL

[Enrique "Kiko"]

Going hard in the gym 100% could be, 100% technique, 100% Strength, 100% pressure, 100% speed, 100% offense, 100% defense, 100% passing. I think I should have clarified that better. Don't rip, pull and crank submissions 100% in the gym (That's how people get fucked up.) But pressure, speed, technique when live rolling should always try to be as close to 80-100%. Jiu jitsu unlike any striking art is ended by tapping out. You can't live spar muay thai 5 days a week at 100%, or your fight life will be cut abruptly short.

The first year of jiu jitsu is just learning how to survive. Once you've figured out how to survive submissions like (Triangle chokes, Omoplatas, Arm bars, Kimuras, Americana's, Guillotines, Arm Triangles) you'll know your threshold.

That's the most spot on attitude I've ever heard/read about what 100% rolling/sparring means. 100% speed + 100%passing sounds like a great game to play without hurting someone to me. You could mix up what your focal points are during live rolls. Thank you for dropping the knowledge and great insight John.

[Craig Murray]

once you've crossed over into the competition side of things where you want to be at the top of the podium, you want to be the best in the world, you have to flip a switch.

Yeah, I understand. I competed extensively in TKD. I qualified for and competed at the national level 6 years in a row. I never got gold at nationals, but I tried like hell. I've never knocked anyone unconscious, but I've tried with everything I had. I understand the mind-set that's required to even survive at that level. If you are not going for blood, you're in serious trouble. I've seen firsthand broken jaws, guys heads split wide open, broken ribs, the list goes on.

In TKD I was within a couple years of a 3rd Dan when I stopped training. At that point I was frustrated by the lack of head punches and limitations of the art and started training karate (there was no MMA or even BJJ in those days). I briefly experimented with kick boxing but quickly realized I hated getting punched in the face. In TKD if you are careful you can avoid head kicks for the most part. Getting cracked full-force with a headkick in TKD is somewhat uncommon once you are skilled enough, but once you start boxing you're getting your face smashed constantly, it's unavoidable. It wasn't for me, and I haven't competed since. I guess I found my ceiling and that was it.

Now 20 years later I'm training in a martial art again. I don't recover like I used to, and injuries are much easier to fall into. My goal is to become as skilled in JJ as I can. At my age, the best way to accomplish that is to avoid injury so that I can train consistently.

I certainly expect to roll hard at some point. I know I have to to get to the level I want to be at. I suspect I have grown more conservative with age. I have less to prove, and less to gain from winning competitively.

At the same time there seems to be a culture in BJJ that is still pretty macho. "We don't tap from joint-locks" and things of that nature. When I was younger I probably would have admired that attitude. These days, it just seems immature and reckless to me.

I guess I'm just old.

[John Mejia]

Yeah, I understand. I competed extensively in TKD. I qualified for and competed at the national level 6 years in a row. I never got gold at nationals, but I tried like hell. I've never knocked anyone unconscious, but I've tried with everything I had. I understand the mind-set that's required to even survive at that level. If you are not going for blood, you're in serious trouble. I've seen firsthand broken jaws, guys heads split wide open, broken ribs, the list goes on.

In TKD I was within a couple years of a 3rd Dan when I stopped training. At that point I was frustrated by the lack of head punches and limitations of the art and started training karate (there was no MMA or even BJJ in those days). I briefly experimented with kick boxing but quickly realized I hated getting punched in the face. In TKD if you are careful you can avoid head kicks for the most part. Getting cracked full-force with a headkick in TKD is somewhat uncommon once you are skilled enough, but once you start boxing you're getting your face smashed constantly, it's unavoidable. It wasn't for me, and I haven't competed since. I guess I found my ceiling and that was it.

Now 20 years later I'm training in a martial art again. I don't recover like I used to, and injuries are much easier to fall into. My goal is to become as skilled in JJ as I can. At my age, the best way to accomplish that is to avoid injury so that I can train consistently.

I certainly expect to roll hard at some point. I know I have to to get to the level I want to be at. I suspect I have grown more conservative with age. I have less to prove, and less to gain from winning competitively.

At the same time there seems to be a culture in BJJ that is still pretty macho. "We don't tap from joint-locks" and things of that nature. When I was younger I probably would have admired that attitude. These days, it just seems immature and reckless to me.

I guess I'm just old.

Shit I tap to joint locks. I'm not that macho, However there's tons of dudes that will take you sparing them as weakness and end up capitalizing on you not applying the submission in the realm of competition. It'll leave you sour and you'll vow to never let that happen again.