Miyao out of ADCC, hurt in EBI?

[Craig Murray]

Recent news says Miyao is out of ADCC due to injury:
http://www.bjjee.com/featured/adcc-2...oao-miyao-out/

I suspect he hurt his knee in EBI from one of those heelhook attempts?

For me this is part of that whole "I don't tap to joint locks" idea that guys are into. I think it's dumb, but I'm not a world champion, so /shrug.

I can almost get on board with guys not tapping to an armbar... if you get badly hyper-extended you might be wiping your ass with the wrong hand for a few months. But if you don't tap to a heelhook you can be looking at reconstructive surgery.

I'm really bummed about this news. I find it sad, frustrating, and a little confusing.

[David Rosado]

I respect Vinny Mag's decision to not tap at ADCC against Werdum. This is the biggest event with the biggest cash prize. It makes sense. In EBI, with a possible $20k on the line, I can understand why someone wouldn't tap. Especially because you're the "most elite" guy there and everyone is expecting you to blow through everyone. So you have your rep to protect AND you have money on the line.

I know we believe in mantras like "no ego" and "BJJ is a douchebag filter." But in practice, that's just not true. Lots of huge egos. Plenty of douchebags. But I digress.

My guess is that he did get hurt at EBI. If he was hurt before EBI, I assume he would skip EBI to heal up before ADCC.

[Arman Fathi]

Especially because you're the "most elite" guy there and everyone is expecting you to blow through everyone.

Remember that "most elite" guy is relative. You're talking about a guy that tears up a point-based environment where heel hooks are illegal. From EBI and Metamoris style tournaments, we'd attest that Garry Tonin is one of the most elite, but he's not winning the worlds like the Miyaos, so what does that tell you?

The rules of the game dictate how the game is played.

[David Rosado]

Remember that "most elite" guy is relative. You're talking about a guy that tears up a point-based environment where heel hooks are illegal. From EBI and Metamoris style tournaments, we'd attest that Garry Tonin is one of the most elite, but he's not winning the worlds like the Miyaos, so what does that tell you?

The rules of the game dictate how the game is played.

That's why I put elite in parenthesis. I mean, no doubt he's good. But it's like some people put him on a pedestal because of IBJJF. I agree with you. I think guys underestimate other guys who are not constant IBJJF players. That's why games like ADCC and EBI are so important. I'm looking forward to seeing how Cummings and Geo do against Cobrinha if the matches happen.

And if it matters, Tonon did get Bronze in the absolute if I remember correctly. But that's beside the point. The man nearly tapped Kron while he was a brown belt. He's been elite for a while. With or without an IBJJF medal.

[Liquidrob]

Lol at the elite in parentheses, some of you guys crack me up

[Jack Hanley]

There's a real difference now between IBJJF style "No-Gi BJJ" and what I would "submission grappling". The former has no heelhooks, no reaping, and basically neuters submission attacks on 50% of the body. The latter allows for a full arsenal of submission attacks over 100% of the body.

A guy being elite in No-Gi BJJ isn't going to guarantee he is elite in submission grappling anymore.

[Liquidrob]

Have you guys never watched Joao do No Gi before? Non IBJJF?

[Jack Hanley]

Joao Miyao took 4th in ADCC 2013. I don't think anyone can question the eliteness of someone who took 4th at ADCC. I would certainly not exclude him or any other ADCC 4th placer (I'm not using the word medalist since I think only 3rd should be regarded as bronze) from eliteness in the "submission grappling" category.

Having said that, he did only win two matches at ADCC 2013. They were against Mark Ramos and Ricardo Vieira. Definitely high level grapplers, but they also have backgrounds in IBJJF style grappling. So, it's not exactly like he was facing guys known for having Eddie Cummings level heelhooks. I watched the stream of those matches live and commented over our podcast back in 2013.

At the end of the day, we saw him do 30 minutes of regulation time grappling at EBI. He didn't get a single tap on any of his 3 opponents during that regulation time. In a much shorter amount of regulation time, Cummings got 4 subs. I think that goes a long way to illustrating who was more elite in "submission grappling" on Saturday. A lot of other competitors managed to get regulation time subs where Miyao did not.

It's too bad he is not going to be in ADCC 2015. I've seen conflicting reports over the last few days as to whether he dropped out of ADCC because he took too much damage in EBI or for some other reason. But, if he dropped out of ADCC because of damage from not tapping to heelhooks in those EBI matches, then I don't know how he would have faired in an ADCC field with guys like Cummings. It could be he would survive some heelhooks, but the damage he might have taken might have stopped him from advancing to the later rounds if he got a guy like Cummings early.

If his dropout was due to heelhook damage at EBI, we'll probably never know. I would guess it would not serve his interests in running a school to admit he was so badly damaged on Saturday that he can't compete in an upcoming tournament that would threaten more heelhooks.

[Liquidrob]

If you watched ADCC, he subbed 2 guys, by calf slicer and heel hook, ran into Rafa and lost on guard pull, Rafa didn't score a point

In the 3rd/4th place match he was all over and out grappled Radar, watch the match

He just subbed 2 guys last month in Grapplers quest sub only, went toe to toe with Gary Tonon who is much bigger, won No Gi worlds

Its amazing the reaction to Joao from this event, it's really hard to sub guys who just defend also, especially No Gi

[Liquidrob]

Also, I believe ADCC was his first year at BB