Heel Hookery

[Jack LaBarge]

I thought some of Budo Jake's thoughts were interesting. Especially not putting anymore time into heel hooks.

[Chris Herzog]

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[William Schrimsher]

Its a proven fact that excellent leg lockers can "Feel" your leg lock ineptitude, and respond by leaving your legs alone.

[Mojoplata]

So if you stop training heel hooks... you'll be more prepared for them?

[RobertGarza]

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Bwahahaha

[Jack Hanley]

To me, this video kind of represents a lot of the perspective of the old guard of IBJJF gi guys. I seem to hear:

--heel hooks are just another trend,
--no reason to study them more closely just because guys are using them to dominate the competition right now,
--heel hooks are just something you do to help someone get ready for something like ADCC,
--heel hooks are outside the norm in the gym and require a special agreement, and
--if you like walking you don't become involved in a lot of heelhookery.

We are probably still just in the early stages of the divergence of the IBJJF style gi centric discipline and the submission grappling style no-gi centric discipline. Eddie and Dean at ADCC 2003 was one of the first big mile markers on that road. Rodolfo and Romulo Barral getting taken out early at ADCC 2011 despite all the predictions they would dominate with minimal no-gi prep time was a more recent big one (Rodolfo famously by a Lister heelhook and Barral via loss to Kyle Griffin). Eddie's re-domination of Royler was yet another one. Interspersed around all these were a lot of other notable ADCC performances from no-gi guys like David Avellan, Jake Shields, Gilbert Melendez, Cacareco, Monson, etc. Now we have Miyao's less than predicted showing at EBI 4 (and possible leg destruction) despite strong predictions of domination. Things like this will probably start happening more and more often to IBJJF guys with less adaptable styles.

I think it's just going to get harder and harder for the old guard IBJJF gi guys to explain away these types of divergence events until eventually they will be forced to admit that the two things are separate and preparation in just IBJJF gi centric grappling will no longer adequately prepare you for the other. Who knows...maybe this new generation of heelhookers coming up will be the thing that precipitates that schism.

[Mike Nall]

To me, this video kind of represents a lot of the perspective of the old guard of IBJJF gi guys. I seem to hear:

--heel hooks are just another trend,
--no reason to study them more closely just because guys are using them to dominate the competition right now,
--heel hooks are just something you do to help someone get ready for something like ADCC,
--heel hooks are outside the norm in the gym and require a special agreement, and
--if you like walking you don't become involved in a lot of heelhookery.

We are probably still just in the early stages of the divergence of the IBJJF style gi centric discipline and the submission grappling style no-gi centric discipline. Eddie and Dean at ADCC 2003 was one of the first big mile markers on that road. Rodolfo and Romulo Barral getting taken out early at ADCC 2011 despite all the predictions they would dominate with minimal no-gi prep time was a more recent big one (Rodolfo famously by a Lister heelhook and Barral via loss to Kyle Griffin). Eddie's re-domination of Royler was yet another one. Interspersed around all these were a lot of other notable ADCC performances from no-gi guys like David Avellan, Jake Shields, Gilbert Melendez, Cacareco, Monson, etc. Now we have Miyao's less than predicted showing at EBI 4 (and possible leg destruction) despite strong predictions of domination. Things like this will probably start happening more and more often to IBJJF guys with less adaptable styles.

I think it's just going to get harder and harder for the old guard IBJJF gi guys to explain away these types of divergence events until eventually they will be forced to admit that the two things are separate and preparation in just IBJJF gi centric grappling will no longer adequately prepare you for the other. Who knows...maybe this new generation of heelhookers coming up will be the thing that precipitates that schism.

I agree with a lot of what you're saying and I also strongly believe that heel hooks can be learned and practiced pretty safely. At the same time I really can't fault someone that isn't a pro grappler or fighter to decide to not train them. Budo Jake has a nice career and trains for fun. To a lot of those guys they just decide it isn't worth the risk. I'm far from a pro grappler and I love training heel hooks, but I also know that I'm probably taking a risk that might be a little bit silly now that I'm in my 30's and I need my legs totally understand agreeing to it beforehand if it's someone you've never trained with before or if you're visiting a gym just to make sure you're playing by house rules.

I don't think they're a trend. I mean they've always been near the top of the most common subs list in any comp that allows them. Gracie Barra is Budo Jake's affiliation, and they are a huge organization and they seem to be a little stricter on rules and regulations than some other academies? Braulio Estima has some of the most ridiculous heel hooks you'll ever see and I've noticed he doesn't do them that much outside of ADCC. But he also does a lot of IBJJF NoGi events. So I really just think that a lot of people train for the event that's coming up. It could easily fuck someone like Braulio up if he trained heel hooks getting ready for the NoGi Europeans or something. The IBJJF needs to just make them legal for black belts. Then you wouldn't see people like Braulio or Cobrinha or Rafa training them on ADCC years and then not training them on NoGi Worlds years.

I actually think of Joao Miyao as a huge heel hook guy no-gi. It's probably his most common no-gi submission when it's allowed. Overall I agree with your post totally.

[Henrik Bjork]

So first, ppl who drive and record films are to me a bit dochy and a danger in traffic.

Second when you are good ar sumthing you should do it in a competition. Or is his advice to Rhonda to stop doing that fad they call straight armbar?

[bobby rivers]

When you start to look at an entry into a dominant leg position as a guard pass, all opposing arguments sound naive and ignorant.

[Arman Fathi]

Heel hooks don't hurt people. Douchebags hurt people.

Competitive considerations not-withstanding.