ADCC point system kind sucks

[Mike Nall]

I think the idea with most rule sets is to take the Referee out of the equation. The rules can't be subject to the Referees discretion or opinion. There isn't anyway around that sometimes but giving points for sub attempts leaves it too much in the refs hands as to what is deamed a threat. If you don't do this then you'll have refs getting accused of favoritism and such.

EBI rules are the best sub grappling rules out there.

You are right though, when the ADCC rules were conceived the UFC was still pretty new and so ADCC was supposed to be the Grappling version of the UFC. Well.... The same thing has happened to ADCC that happened to the UFC. We went from a competition of style against style to everyone using the same style. I think we that happens it's time to freshen things up with some rule adjustments.

I agree with all of that but a cool thing that I do like about ADCC is that the ref has no decision making power. I believe the judges at the table make all of the calls and the ref is only able to make a call based on what the judges say. the ref mostly serves as someone to start and stop the match sort of like Eddie at EBI.

Unless the ref is the one that decides stalling calls? I don't know how that works but they were very inconsistent.

[NotReady]

Naga gives points for Sub attempts so long as they are good attempts. Yes it is subjective, but I like the Naga point system the best as far as point systems go so far.

My problem with that is, whether its an advantage or 2 points, they are being given because an athlete has to react to the submission attempt, not necessarily that it was a near submission. How do you really gauge a near submission? If someone tries a bad footlock that was nowhere near causing any discomfort and you pull your foot out, should they be rewarded?

[Joey Wren]

The last NAGA I was at seemed to have some good refs. They only awarded points for close submission attempts where the opponent was in danger. I saw some subs thrown up that never really had a chance that weren't awarded points, but yeah it can get murky depending on the refs.

[Jason Mallory]

What if the points at ADCC were given in the first half instead of the second? The guy ahead on points would want to stall in the second half but at least the other guy would be going all out for the Sub.

How long before the Shiek catches on the sub-only EBI overtime is the way to go ?

[NotReady]

The last NAGA I was at seemed to have some good refs. They only awarded points for close submission attempts where the opponent was in danger. I saw some subs thrown up that never really had a chance that weren't awarded points, but yeah it can get murky depending on the refs.

I guess I just don't like the idea of "almost" points. Imagine if the NFL gave you one point for getting in the red zone. You either score or you don't.

[David Rosado]

I guess I just don't like the idea of "almost" points. Imagine if the NFL gave you one point for getting in the red zone. You either score or you don't.

I get you. But at the same time, the goal is different. The football game isn't over because one team got a touchdown.

I would consider near submissions to be more similar to significant strikes in striking arts. The end goal of a boxing match is to get the KO. But if you don't get the KO, they reward you for significant strikes and tally up the score. They even give you 10-8 rounds for "almost" knock outs. I think that's a decent approach to sub only comps. Basically, who threw the most heat? Who had who in the most trouble? And this give incentive to be more submission aggressive.

Honestly, I respect all different kinds of rule sets because I get their philosophy. For entertainment purposes, sub only is still the best for sure. Some styles will fare better in points tourneys. Some fare better in sub only. It's all jiu jitsu. And I think that if you want to be the best, you should be able to adapt your game to every rule set.

And this is why Marcelo is a BJJ god. His style translates perfectly to all rule sets. He would be a killer in sub only. He was already a killer in points tourneys. And this is why Eddie's game + philosophy is so important because it highlights the importance of the kill and throws away the limitation of silly rules like no neck cranks and heel hooks.

[Jeff Baldwin]

I agree with all of that but a cool thing that I do like about ADCC is that the ref has no decision making power. I believe the judges at the table make all of the calls and the ref is only able to make a call based on what the judges say. the ref mostly serves as someone to start and stop the match sort of like Eddie at EBI.

Unless the ref is the one that decides stalling calls? I don't know how that works but they were very inconsistent.

In Judo the center Referee is part of team of Referee's the others sit at a table ring side with a few monitors to view replays of certain techniques and can order the center Ref to give a score, subtract a score, change a score, etc.

I think it would be good if we could come up with a serious solution to ADCC's rules while still maintaining it's balance towards all Grappling styles.

I've been thinking that perhaps taking the EBI overtime rules and adding a 3rd position, similar to the old 'forced leg clinch' rules from Freestyle Wrestling where one gets to start in basically a single leg.

They can score from that position... or not

The other two positions you have to get the sub or they escape.

Or something along those lines.


Then we can create a Petition and send it to the powers that be at ADCC.

[Mike Nall]

What if the points at ADCC were given in the first half instead of the second? The guy ahead on points would want to stall in the second half but at least the other guy would be going all out for the Sub.

How long before the Shiek catches on the sub-only EBI overtime is the way to go ?

Sadly the Shiekh isn't involved anymore, but I'm sure there's some governing body you could try to contact.

I'd post on their Facebook page and try to get as many people as you know to do the same