Dead Orchard Escape + Where Did I Screw Up?

[mountveggie]

So, I slapped on a Dead Orchard at a comp this past weekend - setting it up exactly how the man himself, Nate Orchard, taught me to (edit: Just saw the video and nope. Definitely NOT a good set up by any stretch of the imagination )

"YES!!"

Everything seemed to be going perfectly. After all, no one in training had escaped a fully locked-in Dead Orchard before.

"Just pull the arm, and you've got it."

Up till this point, my opponent's proven to be a lot physically stronger than me, so I go for broke, crank on that arm with all I have, throw my hips forward and see him flop to the ground. For sure, he's gonna tap.

N.O.P.E.

Next thing I know, one foot crosses in front of me. Then the other (I think? Can't really recall, was too tired to think straight). I keep yanking, but a few seconds later... those feet do their job, and he's out. I'm awarded the match, but my inability to finish leads to him (very deservingly) winning the tournament.

Unfortunately, I don't have a video of the match to study where I screwed up. All I have are hazy memories to grab at. But i really do wanna know though - how'd that happen and more importantly, how can I not screw this awesome move up in future?

Appreciate any advice from you DO pros out there!

Edit: Heck yeah! Just found out that one of my mates actually recorded this match. Unsuccessful DO attempt at 5:00 (watching this video also made me realise how horrible my set up was. Urgh.... For some reason, it seemed perfect in my mind though, haha)

[Jeff Baldwin]

Not an expert on the DO but the position is very similar to a Triangle Choke. Crossing your ankles over the attackers torso allows you to pull their torso away from their legs and then eventually separate their legs.

[mountveggie]

Not an expert on the DO but the position is very similar to a Triangle Choke. Crossing your ankles over the attackers torso allows you to pull their torso away from their legs and then eventually separate their legs.

Yeah which is unfortunately what happened (side note: the dude actually used the exact same move to escape a triangle attempt earlier in our match).

While I can (sort of) accept it happening with a triangle attempt, I'm kinda bummed that this escape seems to work with the DO - and am hoping 10p warriors will have advice on keep the position in these situations (the DO is SUCH an awesome position, seems a waste not to finish it).

[Jerry Walker]

I keep 1 hand on my ankle if necessary (over, not under), lie to the appropriate side, use my other arm to fend off his leg, and find the right moment to try finishing.

[Jeff Baldwin]

Yeah which is unfortunately what happened (side note: the dude actually used the exact same move to escape a triangle attempt earlier in our match).

While I can (sort of) accept it happening with a triangle attempt, I'm kinda bummed that this escape seems to work with the DO - and am hoping 10p warriors will have advice on keep the position in these situations (the DO is SUCH an awesome position, seems a waste not to finish it).

To quote my first BRAZILIAN BJJ Instructor... "Don let im do dat."

Be cognizant that they could attempt to do that. Keep swimming your arms inside the incoming legs and fending them off. While, like stated above, holding on to your shin/ankle. Get on that arm and finish it between fending off his legs. Sometimes it's a race to get the sub before the opponent gets their legs in position.

[mountveggie]

I keep 1 hand on my ankle if necessary (over, not under), lie to the appropriate side, use my other arm to fend off his leg, and find the right moment to try finishing.

Do you mean the ankle that's locked up? (i.e. From a regular rubber guard setup, the left ankle) I'm guessing you're doing this to "block" the opponent's incoming foot?

[mountveggie]

To quote my first BRAZILIAN BJJ Instructor... "Don let im do dat."

Be cognizant that they could attempt to do that. Keep swimming your arms inside the incoming legs and fending them off. While, like stated above, holding on to your shin/ankle. Get on that arm and finish it between fending off his legs. Sometimes it's a race to get the sub before the opponent gets their legs in position.

Great advice, guess it's a matter of battling + finishing (and not just trying for the finish and hoping for the best). Thanks dude!

[Brian Debes]

There are a bunch of problems that can come up with this position and you have to learn to trouble shoot them all. I never want to "sell out" at any point because its supposed to be a control position. Shortly after this position got its name (I had already been using it for about 6.5 years at that time) someone informed me when I posted a video about that game that it was "Ludicrous" that someone could escape the newly named dead orchard, so my in depth trouble shooting tips were pointless. Without seeing exactly what you did, I can comment in much detail, but I'm guessing you might not have been crunched in close to him enough while finishing or let go of too much control. You said you learned it from Nathan. Like in person? If so you probably were taught some specific trouble shooting, if not, most people are trying to just slap a two arm triangle on and they wonder what happened when it messes up. And yeah, that will still work allot of the time, especially if your not super weak.

[Jeff Baldwin]

Like I said above... I'm not an expert on the position. I've played with it a bit but my legs are thick and average in length which seems to limit the ease which I can perform the technique.

[Brent Smith]

There are a bunch of problems that can come up with this position and you have to learn to trouble shoot them all. I never want to "sell out" at any point because its supposed to be a control position. Shortly after this position got its name (I had already been using it for about 6.5 years at that time) someone informed me when I posted a video about that game that it was "Ludicrous" that someone could escape the newly named dead orchard, so my in depth trouble shooting tips were pointless. Without seeing exactly what you did, I can comment in much detail, but I'm guessing you might not have been crunched in close to him enough while finishing or let go of too much control. You said you learned it from Nathan. Like in person? If so you probably were taught some specific trouble shooting, if not, most people are trying to just slap a two arm triangle on and they wonder what happened when it messes up. And yeah, that will still work allot of the time, especially if your not super weak.

Out of curiosity what did you call it before it was named "Dead Orchard"?