Invisible Choke?

[Craig Murray]

I recently saw a Ben Eddy video (which I've lost the link to) where he briefly mentions that there is a choke from invisible collar. Essentially he just takes his strong-side arm and underhooks his weak-side leg. The X formed between his invisible collar arm and his strong-side arm creates an X-choke.

I don't think he mentioned a name for this so I've just been calling it the invisible choke.

How many people use this? I've never seen it on MTS or any other video. I have not had a good oppertunity to experiment with it yet, but I'm planning to asap.

To me it's a very intriguing submission. One of the frustrations I have with my RG game is that if I manage to get to IC the control is amazing and I feel very strong and very safe. But to tap the guy I have to advance, giving up control. It's not uncommon for me to get to IC and then lose the guy before I can tap him. My Muddy Waters is still in it's infancy and I don't feel nearly as in control with that than I do with IC.

If there is really a way to sub a guy inside IC without giving up that position, it could be a massive winfall for me.

So I'm curious if anyone else has experience using this choke. What are some issues I'll face with it? What are the defenses for it? Does this position have a specific name yet? Anyone hit these in competition?

And can this be done effectly from Invisible Crackhead? A RG choke that doesn't even require hand on the mat would be insane. It's hard to zombie dudes in the gi once they learn to grab my lapel. If I could just get MC, double bag them, clear the neck to invisible crackhead, and then choke them out without a zombie? ... oh shit man... I'm drooling at the possibility!


EDIT: I didnt find the origional video but at 0:17 Ben performs this "Invisible Choke" ... and indeed yes Ben is performing it from Invisible Crackhead not Invisible Collar
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dvtddSKlyK8

[Mike Dewitt Jr]

https://youtu.be/dvtddSKlyK8

[Ben Eddy]

Looks like you found it.

The problems you will run into are people blocking you from getting the grip with their free hands and their chin can't be tucked. Ways to fight this will be timing. Time it when they are trying to posture or push into you. You also may not be able to find it because of the gi. The few times I've rolled with people who had Gi's on, the collar and extra fabric got in the way of a lot of the moves I use in RG. Experiment with just grabbing their cross collar with your free arm and pulling that in for a choke. It might be a lot easier to get that hold and finish with it.

To the points you talk about with how hard it is to get an arm zombie'd.. First, a tip on zombying the arm. It seems everyone teaches to get the arm to the mat from digging under their elbow. Their elbow is their strongest point. It's easy for them to lock that down. You should dig under their forearm/hand, it will be hard for them to resist that, the only way they can is if they hide their forearm hand back at your waist line, but if they do this they will have to switch eventually to be able to posture up and attempt escape. Second, I purposefully focus on moves that don't require a zombie because of this fact. For me, there are far too many steps involved in getting a Gogo. Far too many points at which if I make a mistake, I've lost everything. And even if I do everything right I might be just ending up with a sweep off of the Omo from my opponent having good defenses ready at each step. So I like to focus on paths that offer subs while still in closed guard like gun show and hindu control. Neither require a zombie'd arm and both offer multiple sub options. Hindu can be hard to get a feel for/require flexibility so try gun show. I personally feel like if I get gun show control, it's over. It's very hard to stop a dead orchard when you have gun show control. There is just a ton more control from that hold vs regular mission control. Just be sure to only use the control from full guard, I think it can be dangerous to use from new jersey. But again, you might have problems getting gun show in the gi because of the extra fabric. If you play with gun show, experiment with grabbing a cross collar grip with your free hand. That might be another x choke for you without a zombie'd arm.

[Craig Murray]

Thanks for taking the time to give such a detailed response Ben.

I have been experimenting with Hindu Control by doing some positional work. I have a little bit of a hard time maintaining control while in it, or while getting into it. But I have serious control problems in RG in general. My knee squeeze sucks, my squeeze endurance sucks, and I make mistakes a lot.

I have looked at Gunshow on your videos but haven't tried that yet. It's on my list.

The biggest problem I've had with the zombie is guys grabbing my gi to increase their resistance. I'm just not strong enough to break their grip AND pry their arm open. Still working on it though, I have huge confidence in RG. I'll figure it out with more reps.

Honestly my biggest challenge is getting reps in with RG cause most of the time I'm just fighting off chokes and trying not to give up my back.... I'm a mess. White belt blues.

I so hate the gi.

[Ben Eddy]

Yea, that's definitely an issue. Getting to closed guard is 80% of the battle. Especially when guys know you specifically want to take it to close guard and they know you have a dangerous game there. Working on how to consistently get there is where I spend most of my energy right now. It's a tough gig, there's no real easy answers there.

Try playing with gunshow. It's just one move away from mission control and doesn't require a zombie. I feel like once I get that control, it's over (mostly finish with dead orchard, but there's a great triangle there and a couple chokes). It's become my most powerful game from RG currently. It also doesn't require flexibility.