Flat Earth

[Jason Mallory]

I agree. We need to be suspicious of anything NASA says. But based on logic and observation it's pretty clear it's not flat. Flat Earth theory has so many logical problems and holes there is no way it's the right model.

Why does the sun appear the same size at dawn as it does at noon? If the Sun is rotating around the north pole and acts like a spotlight (as most Flat Earth models claim), then it would appear larger as it moves over-head.

From that observation alone we can disprove the Flat Earth model.

But we could go on and on and on, disproving it with nothing more than observations of the sun, the moon, and the seasons. (and a cell-phone to call your friends in New York and China)

That's not true. You can do an experiment yourself to demonstrate the size of the sun changing.

[Jason Mallory]

Here is another proof for you:

Ushuaia is the southern most city in the world. It's at the far southern tip of Argentina.

In December it's daylight for over 17 hours each day. At the same time, Fairbanks Alaska gets only 3 hours of daylight each day. And in June, it's reversed.

How is that possible on Flat Earth?

It's not.

More observations of just the Sun... good ol' Sun.

The 'Midnight Sun', which people observe on earth, is not possible on a ball. Only on a disc/plane.

[John Hickman]

I've found footage of the barrier, and why it's there...

[Craig Murray]

That's not true. You can do an experiment yourself to demonstrate the size of the sun changing.

What you WOULD see if the Earth was flat is the sun being MASSIVELY bigger at noon if it's 3000 miles in the air. Twice as big at noon as at dawn.

And Midnight sun? If you don't understand how you can see the Mightnight sun near the north or south pole then you're not thinking.

You also didnt mention a 17 hour day in southern Argentina. Hows that work on flat earth? Any videos about that?

Less youtube videos, more thinking.

[Craig Murray]

I don't want to seem too dismissive of the size of the sun at noon so let me break it down a little, incase you actually want to do this thought exercise yourself.

At noon in LA it's 3pm in New York. There is over 2000 miles between them in the East-West direction.

I can see the Sun from New York at 3pm (it's 2000 miles west). Not only that but I can still see it at 6pm, closer to sunset. So if it's moved 2000 miles at 3pm then it's moved 4000 miles at 6pm, and I can still see it.

If we use a little basic math (sorry, has to be done) we can use the Pythagorean Theorm to find the distance from you to the Sun (assuming it's 3000 miles in the sky and 4000 miles west).

c2 = a2 + b2

c = sqrt (a2 + b2)

a = 3000 (height of the sun)
b = 4000 (sun traveled 4000 miles west at 6pm in New York)
c = distance from you to the Sun 6 hours after noon

c = sqrt(3000 * 3000 + 4000 * 4000)

therefore c = 5000

So the sun at 6pm in New York is 5000 miles away. But at noon it's only 3000 miles straight up.

The way perspective works, the sun would be MASSIVE at noon, relative to sunset.


Hope that makes sense.

For reference:

http://ncalculators.com/images/pythagoras-theorem.gif

[Jason Mallory]

Less youtube videos, more thinking.

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this over the last few weeks. So how do explain the fact that you cannot detect the curvature of the earth at 8" x mile squared ? Chicago can be seen from Michigan across the lake.

[Craig Murray]

I have been doing a lot of thinking about this over the last few weeks. So how do explain the fact that you cannot detect the curvature of the earth at 8" x mile squared ? Chicago can be seen from Michigan across the lake.

The Earth's surface is not perfectly curved. We have mountains, and valleys, and flat areas.

Perhaps the area you're talking about is flat... the 8" x mile squared is an average. It will not necessarily be demonstrated exactly every place on Earth that you look.

[Craig Murray]

Also, have you been to this place and seen it yourself, or did you watch a video of a flat earth guy showing you?

In my pondering this subject I have avoided using any kind of 3rd party observation (other than a friend with a cell phone). I don't care if some guy in a youtube video says "I can see Chicago"... that's not compelling to me.

To me, it's compelling that there is a 17 hour day in southern Argentina. I dont need youtube to understand that simply cannot happen on flat earth... not even close. It breaks the model so completely that you should be able to throw it out from that alone.

The only reason a 17 hour day in Argentina does NOT make you throw out your flat earth model is because that's what you WANT to believe. At least I have no other explanation for that cognitive dissonance.

[Jason Mallory]

The Earth's surface is not perfectly curved. We have mountains, and valleys, and flat areas.

Perhaps the area you're talking about is flat... the 8" x mile squared is an average. It will not necessarily be demonstrated exactly every place on Earth that you look.

The area I'm talking about is across a body of water. Water always finds it's level in nature. The distance from Chicago to the shore on the other side of Lake Michigan is approx. 40 miles so it should not be visible, but it is. Chicago should be hidden below the 'curve', but it's not. It can clearly be seen.

[Craig Murray]

It's normal though, many people believe things that are logically questionable. Ever meet a Christian? What have you seen in your life that makes you believe people can walk on water and raise the dead? Yet a billion people believe it.

Because they want to, not because it makes a whole lot of sense.