Respect

[Jon Helton]

Your always gonna have douche bags. I never said respect the douche bags. I think I'll go roll now. I'm supposed to have a Renzo brown stopping by tonight. Gonna try to make him respect my twister. I'm sure I might respect his RNC though.

[stlnl]

There's a legit purple at our gym. He is the most arrogant ass ive met , but masks it with false humility. Never gives props and really thinks he's the shit. Smug as fuck if you get my drift, previously with no respect for 10p,but im forcing it down his throat. But he's good, and challenges the shit out of me when I roll him. So i respect his skill. So it makes it that much sweeter when mine surpasses his, which is inevitable because of his closed mind, due to his lack of respect for me.

One of the reasons I train so hard is to beat those who lack respect, humility, and dedication. Its one of the great beauties of our sport. Mats dont lie.

What are the mats telling you right now when you and he roll?

[bobby rivers]

Redrum

[frank-theman-james]

I'm assuming your talking about the example brought up by Frank James about someone bashing 10th Planet since that is the only post I saw like that. I believe that circumstance is different in that scenario being more personal and has nothing to do with 10th Planet.

Jacob Whitfield (head instructor at Triangle JJ) is a legit brown under Royce and a very nice guy. He has been nothing by nice to me and my guys at any competitions. I have spoke with him on more than a few occasions and have had never had a problem.

Regardless, the name of the thread is Respect. Not ass kissing. I see your point and yes there is a different. Saturday at 10th Planet Charlotte we had Black Belt Fernando Salvador (under Mario Aiello) and Black Belt Jeremy Arel (under Gordo) train and teach. It couldn't have been a better experience for me and my guys. This only happened because of the relationships I built with others by showing respect to them.

I will never limit my personal training because I lack respect or have too big of an ego. There are too many different styles of jiu jitsu to do that. I thought that is what 10th Planet was about. Absorb the good shit. One way to see a lot of good shit is to train with as many people as you can...which flows right into the respect thing again.

As I said when we talked on the phone Jon, you didn't know the story when you took jakes side. I have had nothing but respect for jake whitfield before and always referred people to him as he is one of the best jj guys in eastern nc. I, and in retrospect probably could have worded it better, criticized one of his students who posted a video on how to break the lockdown. After which Jake went on facebook and to discredit me claimed I was a fraud, a criminal, and a woman beater, which none of those things had any reason to be said. If he wanted to debate me on his students point of view and the difference with mine, he could have chose a different path. I did overreact and threaten to beat his ass in the street the next time I saw him, but a s far as him not liking 10th planet, it is documented on youtube where he is coaching one of his students and yells aloud in a gym full of jj practitioners and spectators, "dont worry bout that, that shit don't work just like none of eddie bravos shit!" which is in one of the videos he posted as defense to his student being able to break the lockdown ( which btw, he didn't, michael velotta released the lockdown and was in quarter clinch when his student passed to side.) There wasn't nothing on my part that was disrepectful til he chose to post lies bout me on facebook. You have to keep in mind Jon, that I was sparring with bonecrusher smith before jake was born, and on any given weekend, I'll be glad to carry you to a traditional karate tournament and introduce you to people who I have known and competed with for over 20 years, so I'm far from a fraud. I love all martial arts, and think that even on this forum that there is disrespect shown to people with traditional backgrounds, but for you to imply that before the facebook issue that Jake and I had a problem, is incorrect. I am very much respected in traditional karate because I give respect to everyone in all fields of martial arts, and I had given Jake praise and respect before he did what he did. And I think that I did something that ten years ago, I would have never done, and chose to take your advice, and be the bigger person and invite him to my seminar with kevin only to have him say smuggly, "thats not really my thing, blah, blah, blah, and I really dont like the things that eddie has said in the past bout the Gracies." I asked for explanation, and again offered him to go and broaden his horizons, that Kevin would be an excellent person to see teaching tpjj, to which he just shrugged and said I'll think about it. Everyone that I have talked to agrees that he made it personal, and alot of people who know me are surprised by my reaction as well. Im not the type to let people talk shit about me and let it go, but again, Im trying to follow "your" advice and be the bigger man only to have you blow off mine and Kevins comments as to this is just me and Jake is not the problem, well thats bullshit. I really am starting to wonder if your advice is such a good idea if this is the response that you would give to it. I have been doing all that I can with very limited resources, to learn and show tpjj to all I can. And when you speak Highly of Jake whitfield on this forum, when he has videos on the internet straight talking shit about tpjj, I am really starting to wonder your motives. I for one am not down to anyone talking shit about tpjj and furthermore one of the coolest people that I have ever had the pleasure of meeting, eddie bravo, based on nothing more but narrow minded thinking, because as far as I know, Jake has never taken a tpjj class, seminar, or met eddie to talk so badly about. I for one, like to meet people before I talk shit about them and thier lifes work.

Yes jon, I'm a little taken back at your response, but in response to your thread, on a more subject driven line, I'm happy for you and all that you have accomplished in tpjj and Charlotte. That in and of itself is something to respect and admire you for. And I'm glad that you and Jake have a good relationship, maybe you can drop a grand or so on a seminar and invite him out and see what his response to you would be then, or better yet, contact him and invite him to mine in Feb. I would welcome him and every member of his school with open arms and the respect that I could give... I'm just not sure if they would do the same if I showed up at royces seminars that jake does banging my tpjj gear.

[stlnl]

Maybe he just knows the other guy better than he knows you Frank, and felt the disagreement was more of a personal nature than a case of a brewing Dojo war?

In any event, you offered an olive branch, which is all you can really do. As for the guy calling you a fraud, well you have a purple belt from the one fellow (apologies I forgot his name, I remember he was fairly famous) which is in most cases legit for purposes of teaching grappling. Unless that is some sort of grey area I dont see whay a BJJ guy would say things of that nature, unless it just became a personal beef. This happens, and to my eyes you have done all you can to smooth it, and now just moving forward seems the best thing to do.

[frank-theman-james]

Maybe he just knows the other guy better than he knows you Frank, and felt the disagreement was more of a personal nature than a case of a brewing Dojo war?

In any event, you offered an olive branch, which is all you can really do. As for the guy calling you a fraud, well you have a purple belt from the one fellow (apologies I forgot his name, I remember he was fairly famous) which is in most cases legit for purposes of teaching grappling. Unless that is some sort of grey area I dont see whay a BJJ guy would say things of that nature, unless it just became a personal beef. This happens, and to my eyes you have done all you can to smooth it, and now just moving forward seems the best thing to do.

Thank you and I appreciate your words. fyi, goldsboro is a small town that is mainly supported by an air force base, and yes the competition to get and keep students is tight. I would like to say that a few of jakes students have left him and have come and trained with me, in fact, one just called me and is starting with me at the first of the month, so maybe it is business driven. I do know that jakes father in law had contacted me when jake came to goldsboro and asked if I would help jake get his school going, which I did offer to jake but he declined, and when I left the school I was teaching at, I went to jake and wanted to take lessons, which he was super excited about, but my old karate instructor from years ago called and offered me a place to teach my students and thats the route I took, and thats when a couple of his students left him and came to me.

In reality, I don't know why Jake took the path he did by making it personal, I could speculate all day, but I do know that it was uncalled for, and his dislike of tpjj is documented and comes off as dismissive, and I dont like being dismissed. I rolled with jake for two hours and yes he did tap me a few times. I enjoyed the experience and spoke highly of him. I referred prospective students who were interested in learning strictly bjj to him, as I teach not to make myself feel glorified, but to share with others what I can. I was primarily teaching mma fighting with my students with them working towards amatuer fighting and maybe pro if they chose, so when students came to me and wanted just bjj, I would tell them that maybe triangle was more suited to what they were looking for. Simply put, I cant, other than me defending the tpjj system, can think of why Jake did what he did. And that in and of itself should show Jon and others on her my dedication to this system and I think should be appreciated, not discounted.

[stlnl]

Well if he is as good as folks say,and you only got tapped a couple of times in 2 hours of back and forth grappling, I would say you were doing alright.

[frank-theman-james]

Well if he is as good as folks say,and you only got tapped a couple of times in 2 hours of back and forth grappling, I would say you were doing alright.

It was light and we did some grappling and then standup and then both. He definately had the advantage on the ground but he had nothing for me in the stand up. His traditional karate instructor and mine were old friends and our styles were very similar, but I guess it wasnt his thing anymore. i try to roll with whoever whenever I can, especially with higher ranks because just like in traditional karate, thats the guys who will make you better. On a side note, I just received a message from an old friend who remembered me from 15 years ago, That made me feel good as my traditional stuff is what I excelled at and unfortunately, I didnt discover bjj untill I blew out my knee racing motocross and was much older and past my prime. lol. So it was nice to get noticed on here for what I used to do when I was better and younger. thanks for your words, you and I used to bump heads, so maybe thats a sign that broader thinking will prevail, which was what I was trying to express to Jon and thank him for making me take a different look at things, but I guess he took from it what he wanted. Where are you located?

[stlnl]

No, I am sure we will still bump heads. I just bump when I disagree, and freely say so when I agree. Like I said before, debate isnt personal at all to me, it is simply discussion and debate. Some people take disagreement as disrespect, but it is simply most of the time not the case.

[frank-theman-james]

No, I am sure we will still bump heads. I just bump when I disagree, and freely say so when I agree. Like I said before, debate isnt personal at all to me, it is simply discussion and debate. Some people take disagreement as disrespect, but it is simply most of the time not the case.

cool, then I look forward to our next debate.