Trivia question for Jiu Jitsu history buffs...

[Brent Smith]

Possible. There's always someone that claims to hve been doing it forever ago. IE the lockdown was being done by judo guys forever. At least tahats what my judo instructor would say. I'm sure some early kung fu guy did it first and we're just renaming it.

[Jon Watkins]

Judo guys have been using lockdown forever. (True Yoshinori Nishi is more Japanese Jiu Jitsu than Judo, but Judo incorporates the ground techniques of Japanese Jiu Jitsu in Ne-waza so..)


And I don't mean to be a stickler, but saying spiral guard is just Reverse De La Riva guard is kind of like saying Chill Dog is just New York. There is a whole different can of worms that open up when you underhook the foot than when you cup the heel.

[J Grooms]

You're kinda being a stickler lol

[Brent Smith]

Judo guys have been using lockdown forever. (True Yoshinori Nishi is more Japanese Jiu Jitsu than Judo, but Judo incorporates the ground techniques of Japanese Jiu Jitsu in Ne-waza so..)


And I don't mean to be a stickler, but saying spiral guard is just Reverse De La Riva guard is kind of like saying Chill Dog is just New York. There is a whole different can of worms that open up when you underhook the foot than when you cup the heel.

Just going off what other blackbelts are calling it. I call it spiral guard but there are other names for it.

[Jon Watkins]

Maybe I am being a stickler, but black belts call Shawn Williams Guard Rubber Guard. That does not mean they are correct. You aren't going to spiral under someone's back from traditional Reverse De La Riva just like you aren't going to hit the sorcerer from Shawn Williams Guard. But oh well.

[J Grooms]

I'm just messin with ya man.. IDK who the original guy is to call it the spiral guard.. but it's definitely highly inspired by RDLR.

[Jon Watkins]

No offense taken and you're probably right. Maybe I'll ask Ricardo the next time he's in Indy.

[Brent Smith]

I may be mistaken but wasn't Sean Williams guard being called London before it got weeded out of the 10th Planet system? So therefore London was part of rubber guard..right?
I think you're splitting hairs man. The only difference is hand placement and the inversion. An I'm pretty sure you don't hav to be completely inverted to consider it spiral guard. So just hand placement is the difference. And its not just a couple black belts calling it the same thing. Just a google search brings up many hits. So if all these people are wrong someone needs to educate.

[Jon Watkins]

A google search of Spiral Guard or Reverse De La Riva? And I guess London WAS in the system, but I'm not sure if it qualified as Rubber Guard, but then again we're just getting into what's the semantic signifier on that one.

[Brent Smith]

That aside I would be interested in who really started popularizing it. I know Cobrinha uses it like crazy but who showed it to him and so on and so forth. And the Mendes brothers too.