Eddie Bravo "stealing" moves

[Chris Herzog]

And the 'Ude-Garami' was the Double Wrist Lock from Catch Wrestling which was incorporated into Judo.

Jason I'd challenge that one. I know Kano did incorperate some of wrestling's take downs (like the drop fireman's carry)However, Ude-Garami was in a number of traditional/classical Japanese Jujutsu systems (Tejin shin'yo ryu and Diato Ryu for sure)for hundreds of years prior to Judo's creation in 1882. It was primarliy used as a standing hold, to be used as a lever for disarming and throwing. As I haven't practiced Japanese Jujutsu in a number of years, the name of the hold/throw escapes me. I'm sure if Ari sees this thread he could add to it. I know its not shiho-nage but some what similar.

[Chris Herzog]

I was just calling out the Kimura part. I know nobody on here thinks Eddie steals.

Without all of Judo, there would be no BJJ. Mitsyu Meada (Count Koma)the man that tought the Gracies was a Judo practicer.

[Tyler Frazier]

Eddie Bravo stole my virginity

[Eric "Tiger Blood" Safier]

[BillWalker]

A omo is an omo, a triangle is a triangle. I look at it as Eddie has given names to the paths more than anything else and that's what I love about the system. No other system has step by step names as descriptive. So people see us say "do the douchebag!!" the uninformed just say "that's a no arm triangle wtf is that renaming shit..." People see us calling out jiuclaw so they think we are renaming an omo... Rather than calling out a path to an omo finish, or a more descriptive term than yelling out "NO ARM TRIANGLE!!" Its ignorance on their side not ours.

Because that block of letters jumped around so much, enjoy the funny man.

[DBK]

partche time royler. is better than full time edjie bravo.

[bobby rivers]

No arm triangle with tha fist is the gagreflex and the douschebag is finishing in spiderweb by pushin on his face with your foot. jussayin

[J Grooms]

Jason I'd challenge that one. I know Kano did incorperate some of wrestling's take downs (like the drop fireman's carry)However, Ude-Garami was in a number of traditional/classical Japanese Jujutsu systems (Tejin shin'yo ryu and Diato Ryu for sure)for hundreds of years prior to Judo's creation in 1882. It was primarliy used as a standing hold, to be used as a lever for disarming and throwing. As I haven't practiced Japanese Jujutsu in a number of years, the name of the hold/throw escapes me. I'm sure if Ari sees this thread he could add to it. I know its not shiho-nage but some what similar.

This is a hot topic in the Catch Wrestling community. There are advocates for both sides of the argument, but I believe that Billy Robinson and Karl Gotch both say that Catch wrestlers introduced the DBL Wristlock to Judo (of course they would say that though lol). It's too hard to say either way, but Judo and Catch traded many different moves back in the day. They used to battle it out a lot. For example, The arm triangle used to be called the Judo choke in Catch Wrestling. I want to say, but don't take my word for it, that Ude-Garami is the Americana (or top wristlock in catch) and the reverse Ude-Garami is the Kimura. That leads some to speculate that Judo knew of the Americana first then later added the Kimura.

[Chris Herzog]

This is a hot topic in the Catch Wrestling community. There are advocates for both sides of the argument, but I believe that Billy Robinson and Karl Gotch both say that Catch wrestlers introduced the DBL Wristlock to Judo (of course they would say that though lol). It's too hard to say either way, but Judo and Catch traded many different moves back in the day. They used to battle it out a lot. For example, The arm triangle used to be called the Judo choke in Catch Wrestling. I want to say, but don't take my word for it, that Ude-Garami is the Americana (or top wristlock in catch) and the reverse Ude-Garami is the Kimura. That leads some to speculate that Judo knew of the Americana first then later added the Kimura.

Ude-Garami is the Americana, Kuzure Ude Garami is a term used to describe the Kimura and a large number of other "key lock"esqe type of submissions. "Kuzure" just means variation. Nether leads to specualtion that it was later added to Judo, one doesn't lead to the other. The term Kurzure is used to list a number of variants of techniques, as a classification, not that it was later added. The Japanese did not use discrpitions to name transitions, only the actual technique. As I said before Kano was a Jujutsu expert prior to creating Judo. There are several variations of keylocks, hammer locks, etc. in the traditional Japanese Jujutsu systems (Which there are hundreds of), well prior to any influnce or exposure that Catch had on Judo.

[Jesse Bell]

Renato disagrees.