Creation Science ...

[Ben]

My girlfriend takes classes with a guy that is getting into science just to try and disprove carbon dating (he's a Christian).
I don't know if there are flaws with it, since I have never studied it (majoring in Physics, but only a first year student, so I'm stuck in basic Chem at the moment), but it seems silly to me to use so much effort to try and disprove it. Even if you disproved all science that stands in the way of religion, you haven't disproved any other religion. So then...how do we prove who is right? Blind faith? Guess and see what "feels" right? I'm no God, but I think God would have a much better plan than that. But since all religion is based on faith, you can never know if you are right. Seems pretty fucked up to me.

[AJ Camacho]

It was actually just more me rambling out loud to myself about how I can't believe these kinds of beliefs and outdated ideas still exist with the amount of information available to people.

Ironically, I think you'll see more people with bizarre beliefs due to the massive amount of available information. Nowadays anybody can go find any random YouTube video or Wikipedia entry to validate the preconceived notion on any topic. As formal education continues to be financially unobtainable, self educated gurus without formal merit or accreditation will fill the void taking over the general pool of knowledge. Wives tales, myths, and anecdotal observation will be disseminated via YouTube blogs and message boards disposing of logical analysis, peer review and the scientific method. Welcome the digital dark age.

[Joshua Jarboe]

Hey Jason H, I know your interest in this thread is dying / has died. Any chance you can answer those questions I had? I just read through 6 pages of this thread hoping to find them. If you can point me in the right direction I should be able to put the rest together.

[JAnderson]

Thanks for posting this video Jason, it truely is a blessing.

[Jason Mallory]

Thanks for posting this video Jason, it truely is a blessing.

No doubt, you should check out Hovind's whole series. Michael Behe's book 'Darwins Black Box' is really good too. I wouldn't say he is a Christian but his science definately disproves evolution and points to a creator.

[JAnderson]

cool bro, i'l check it em out

[Tim Elliott]

Ironically, I think you'll see more people with bizarre beliefs due to the massive amount of available information. Nowadays anybody can go find any random YouTube video or Wikipedia entry to validate the preconceived notion on any topic. As formal education continues to be financially unobtainable, self educated gurus without formal merit or accreditation will fill the void taking over the general pool of knowledge. Wives tales, myths, and anecdotal observation will be disseminated via YouTube blogs and message boards disposing of logical analysis, peer review and the scientific method. Welcome the digital dark age.

So very very true. This should be read by lots of people.

Jason, you have been actively mislead on the topic of dating. Your description of the process of uranium lead dating is like trying to sum up Jiu Jitsu in five sentences, four of which are deliberately wrong. Its an extremely complex topic. Heres an example of how you have been mislead. Its correct to say that a granite is loosely an open system, and you are dating a granite, so you can explain to people these problems, they will be factually correct. You cant U/Pb date a piece of granite. But its spin. We dont date the granite, we date constituent minerals of the granite. Specifically Zircon. Very different.

What amazes me, and I dont mean to give offence here Jason, Im not just talking about you, but it does amaze me, is that someone is willing to write off one of the most rigorously tested tools in modern science, without even a rudimentary understanding of it. And the information is freely available and theres mountains of it. These days there Google Scholar. You can get at academic papers easily and with the help of google/wikipedia, you can read them.

Geochronologists (people who date rocks) are spend their entire lives studying dating and trying to tear apart and find flaws in each others methods.

In short, the world is billions of years old. This has been established, without a scrap of doubt. There was no cohabitation of humans and dinosaurs. That didnt happen. You have to ask yourself which is more likely. Did God create all this stuff to test your faith, or is a book, written by men thousands of years ago wrong?

All I can say is in the Churches where they preach this stuff, it must be getting harder and harder to keep people from looking out the window.

[Jason Mallory]

So very very true. This should be read by lots of people.

Jason, you have been actively mislead on the topic of dating. Your description of the process of uranium lead dating is like trying to sum up Jiu Jitsu in five sentences, four of which are deliberately wrong. Its an extremely complex topic. Heres an example of how you have been mislead. Its correct to say that a granite is loosely an open system, and you are dating a granite, so you can explain to people these problems, they will be factually correct. You cant U/Pb date a piece of granite. But its spin. We dont date the granite, we date constituent minerals of the granite. Specifically Zircon. Very different.

What amazes me, and I dont mean to give offence here Jason, Im not just talking about you, but it does amaze me, is that someone is willing to write off one of the most rigorously tested tools in modern science, without even a rudimentary understanding of it. And the information is freely available and theres mountains of it. These days there Google Scholar. You can get at academic papers easily and with the help of google/wikipedia, you can read them.

Geochronologists (people who date rocks) are spend their entire lives studying dating and trying to tear apart and find flaws in each others methods.

In short, the world is billions of years old. This has been established, without a scrap of doubt. There was no cohabitation of humans and dinosaurs. That didnt happen. You have to ask yourself which is more likely. Did God create all this stuff to test your faith, or is a book, written by men thousands of years ago wrong?

All I can say is in the Churches where they preach this stuff, it must be getting harder and harder to keep people from looking out the window.

I will agree with you, it's obvious that the science behind radiometric dating goes beyond the scope of a forum post to describe the process but as you said yourself the problem with granite being an open system is factually correct. I think you are nit pickin' when you say 'we don't date the granite, we date the constituent minerals of the granite.' The same problems apply. You cannot date the age of the minerals within a granite because you do not know the beginning state, whether contanimation has occured or whether the decay rate of radioisotopes is constant. The speed of light was once believed to be constant but we know this is not true today.

You still have not addressed the issue of Polonium halos in granite which form within 6-10 days. This proves the granites on planet earth formed very quickly, they did not form over millions of years or else the Polonium halos would not be present. This is not religious misinformation this is modern science.

I don't know about you but I have never been in a church where they preached about radiometric dating and Polonium halos. I've read a few books on creation science and looked things up on the net. Books like Behe's Darwins Black Box are not religious at all and have nothing to do with any particular religion, it's a science book.

Scientists themselves are the ones saying that radiometric dating is unreliable.

As far as humans and dinosaurs living together, anyone who is interrested should watch Hovind's lecture on it. There are a number of books on the subject that I believe he mentions in the lecture. And for those who were not aware, unfossilized dinosaur bones have been found with fresh plasma within them and Human and Dinosaur footprints have been found together.
Dinosaurs did not live millions of years ago.

[Joshua Jarboe]

Also, for the record, the Bible does not state emphatically that the world is 6,000 years old.

I'm just saying.

[Jason Mallory]

Also, for the record, the Bible does not state emphatically that the world is 6,000 years old.

I'm just saying.

This is true. There are a number of people who have studied this out, I feel Tim Warner has done a great job of taking everything into consideration. For anyone who is interested, you can check out his paper with the link below. He does a pretty good job of explaining theological terms as he goes along.

http://www.oasischristianchurch.org/air/chronology.pdf