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  1. #1

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    Crack head control question

    I have been using crack head to bump the shoulders to get dead orchards a lot. Some of my training partners have adjusted to sticking out their elbows (under my thigh), preventing me from tightening the crack head control. I can't go for the omo/gogo road, as the other arm is inside (as needed for dead orchards). How do I get rid of that elbow? Attempt to get muddy waters/go through the whole invisible collar road?

  2. #2
    Ben Eddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian moran View Post
    I have been using crack head to bump the shoulders to get dead orchards a lot. Some of my training partners have adjusted to sticking out their elbows (under my thigh), preventing me from tightening the crack head control. I can't go for the omo/gogo road, as the other arm is inside (as needed for dead orchards). How do I get rid of that elbow? Attempt to get muddy waters/go through the whole invisible collar road?
    I personally like to go gun show. This gives you an extra arm to use to force the Dead Orchard and a tighter control. There's been few situations where the guy I'm going against can keep his elbow out versus both my arm and my leg. It does happen though, there are some beasts out there or a size advantage, in that case though you just use their force against them and push it through for a triangle.

    The best entry for gun show for me is if I grip mission control with my hand on top the foot/ankle instead of underneath because this leaves room for my opposite hand to go under when I switch to gun show.

    Try playing with it and see how it works out for you.
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  3. #3
    Eddie Bravo's Avatar
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    Do you have a video of your gun show game?
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  4. #4
    Ben Eddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo View Post
    Do you have a video of your gun show game?
    Just the mini clips of finishes on my insta. I will actually be in LA in a week or so. I'm headed back down to live and train with Geo again so I should be seeing you soon and can show you then. But as for here on the forum, I'll put up a Youtube tutorial on gunshow specifically once I get down there and settled. It's my go to path for closed guard right now because it's available right away from anyone in closed guard with semi broken posture and once in gunshow it's a very high finish percentage.

    Gunshow to dead orchard - https://www.instagram.com/p/oV5DRnwF...shadamoustache

    Gunshow choke - https://www.instagram.com/p/qDAtRrwF...shadamoustache

    Gunshow dead orchard choke - https://www.instagram.com/p/qSgxYeQF...shadamoustache

    Oh and back to OP's question, I forgot about this do da choke Kevin Berbrich came up with for when they are clamming up their elbows. Gotta get under their chin for this though when you swing the leg around and you're risking losing the whole position (but that's typical with any do da finish). https://www.instagram.com/p/qPucIyQF...shadamoustache
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  5. #5

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    Thank you, I'll try mixing up that stuff in.

  6. #6

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    In MTS 100, I have shared a path I use in closed guard from crackhead control. This is my answer to dealing with elbows and getting to muddy waters or a dead orchard. In the following video, you can see me use it in action on someone with 40lbs on me. I was unable to keep him from standing and had to release the position, but you can see how I fought for the position and how the shuffle worked. I wasn't prepared to be picked up before I had freed my right hand. As you see you can not hook with the left arm because the position falls apart. Learning experience, but its the shots you miss that make your game that much tighter and better. Hope the video helps, until MTS or Ben gets the gun show paths up.


    https://youtu.be/KUXgPuxqmTo

  7. #7

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    I get to crack head at 3:20 and start setting up the shuffle at 3:40, at 4:20 I finally hit he setup before he picks me up. Enjoy.

  8. #8
    Ben Eddy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Alvarez View Post
    In MTS 100, I have shared a path I use in closed guard from crackhead control. This is my answer to dealing with elbows and getting to muddy waters or a dead orchard. In the following video, you can see me use it in action on someone with 40lbs on me. I was unable to keep him from standing and had to release the position, but you can see how I fought for the position and how the shuffle worked. I wasn't prepared to be picked up before I had freed my right hand. As you see you can not hook with the left arm because the position falls apart. Learning experience, but its the shots you miss that make your game that much tighter and better. Hope the video helps, until MTS or Ben gets the gun show paths up.


    https://youtu.be/KUXgPuxqmTo
    Quote Originally Posted by Brent Alvarez View Post
    I get to crack head at 3:20 and start setting up the shuffle at 3:40, at 4:20 I finally hit he setup before he picks me up. Enjoy.
    MTS 100, so it's coming out on the next one? Nice, I haven't played with this before. I've had this inner arm crackhead position before through putting my inner arm under the leg while having mission control, but it's usually just used as a placement holder to switch arms for chill dog/invisible collar. But never played with this switch from mission control. Do you find it just gets them off guard or does it add some extra pressure you can push? Or do you just like it for the transition to invisi/chill dog/muddy waters? I like how it lets you have the outer arm free rather than the inner arm. That's why I like the gunshow because it frees up your outer arm for use to help transitions.
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  9. #9

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    Thank you Brent. It looks like a another good option (other than the double bagger-invisible color road), if the pumping does not work. My question was however, what should I do if I am unable to get to crackhead, due to my opponent sticking out his elbow, blocking/preventing the closure.
    I think some of the gun show choke options could work.
    I do appreciate the crackhead shuffle stuff too though, and I am sure I will be using it in rolling.

  10. #10
    gene k's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by julian moran View Post
    Thank you Brent. It looks like a another good option (other than the double bagger-invisible color road), if the pumping does not work. My question was however, what should I do if I am unable to get to crackhead, due to my opponent sticking out his elbow, blocking/preventing the closure.
    I think some of the gun show choke options could work.
    I do appreciate the crackhead shuffle stuff too though, and I am sure I will be using it in rolling.
    Maybe try and play with reverse mission control? https://www.instagram.com/p/pNSIbUQFP7/ But instead of clearing the neck, use your free hand to grab your foot and pull it up to reverse crackhead, or grab their hand and fight for the dead orchard?

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