Is it possible to achieve brown/black level and suck at takedowns?

[Aiseop]

Does the 10th Planet curriculum/system not work on takedowns? I assumed that you guys did, given your MMA-oriented justification for no-gi, etc.. So I answered the OPs questions with the assumption that you guys do. Like, duh, of course they do. It's blowing my mind that it's not in the system.

[David Rosado]

Does the 10th Planet curriculum/system not work on takedowns? I assumed that you guys did, given your MMA-oriented justification for no-gi, etc.. So I answered the OPs questions with the assumption that you guys do. Like, duh, of course they do. It's blowing my mind that it's not in the system.

Watch the available material available from Eddie Bravo. Takedowns aren't necessarily "part" of the system. But every moon definitely practices takedowns per their discretion and preference. Empire offers no gi judo and wrestling, for example. Not officially a 10th planet thing where you're going to see DVD's about it. And some instructors are more proficient than others as far as teaching take downs. So of course it's taught in 10th Planet schools even it it's not "official" mandatory 10th Planet curriculum. Make sense?

Like I said, the Miyao's aren't good wrestlers. But they are still killer black belts.

[Bryan Gore]

Does the 10th Planet curriculum/system not work on takedowns? I assumed that you guys did, given your MMA-oriented justification for no-gi, etc.. So I answered the OPs questions with the assumption that you guys do. Like, duh, of course they do. It's blowing my mind that it's not in the system.

I could be way off, but I think 10th Planet sees itself as Jiu Jitsu with an MMA focus with "Jiu Jitsu" meaning "the ground aspect". Someone going into MMA is encouraged to learn Jiu Jitsu for the ground, Wrestling for the stand-up grappling and Muay Thai or Boxing or whatever hybrid you want for the standup striking, with all 3 being considered separate arts. 10th Planet focusing on one 1 of the 3.

[Brandon Mccaghren]

Does the 10th Planet curriculum/system not work on takedowns? I assumed that you guys did, given your MMA-oriented justification for no-gi, etc.. So I answered the OPs questions with the assumption that you guys do. Like, duh, of course they do. It's blowing my mind that it's not in the system.

We definitely all work on takedowns.

As a side note, I think it's a bit of a misnomer to call what we do a "system" anyway. It's really more of the 10th Planet philosophy, if that makes sense.

In my mind a system represents a specific and prescribed way of doing things, whereas a philosophy is more of an encouragement to think in a certain way.

This is where I think people have completely missed what Eddie has been trying to preach all along. He's preaching offense from the clinch, and he is willing to absorb anything that follows that line of thinking. Just look at the Rubber Guard for instance. Lots of really good rubber guard players in our organization, but each does his own thing from he Rubber Guard philosophy.

I get to Rubber Guard and I'm looking to play for he Meathook. Nathan is going to the Dead Orchard, Barncat is going to the shoulder trap series. Eddie is looking for invisible collar. Etc... All are built off of the same thinking and strategy, however different the paths may turn out.

[Slick Rick]

Awesome Brandon! Definitely a philosophy. Where other schools say, "don't do rubberguard, but do our techniques", the 10P mindset is "do rubberguard, do wrestling, do armdrags. In fact, do whatever works for you."
I think though, that specializing in 10P specific techniques give us a leg up on the competition, because we know our game and we're dissecting theirs, while they know their game but aren't giving reps to ours.

[Ben Eddy]

Does the 10th Planet curriculum/system not work on takedowns? I assumed that you guys did, given your MMA-oriented justification for no-gi, etc.. So I answered the OPs questions with the assumption that you guys do. Like, duh, of course they do. It's blowing my mind that it's not in the system.

For 10P being MMA oriented, I think that comes from our guard play. The MMA oriented comes from Eddie wanting to see a more offensive game from JJ players when they've been put on their backs by superior wrestlers/strikers. He points out that JJ players often times have a distance based guard. This seems to be non-effective and counter-intuitive in situations where your opponent is a better striker (with good TD defense) or wrestler that keeps taking you down. A JJ player who runs into this situation is going to need to be able to win the match from his back. Eddie's strategy for this situation is our system's guard style. It's clinch based both to stay safe and keep the opponent on the mats where we hopefully have the advantage. Play a distance game against a striker with good TD defense and they will just keep backing off and making you stand.

Because of this you will see most 10P guys don't have much of a takedown game even though it's been said we are an MMA oriented style.

[Sean Gamble]

Thanks for having me. This is probably the best natured jiu jitsu forum I have ever been on so I am really happy to be here.

It really is a pretty awesome forum, I have seen very few flame wars here. I joined a few days short of a year ago and not once has anybody had a dig at me being a Humaita guy. Unfortunately I don't think the same would happen if there was a Humaita forum and a white belt had their school listed as 10th Planet.

We definitely all work on takedowns.

As a side note, I think it's a bit of a misnomer to call what we do a "system" anyway. It's really more of the 10th Planet philosophy, if that makes sense.

In my mind a system represents a specific and prescribed way of doing things, whereas a philosophy is more of an encouragement to think in a certain way.

This is where I think people have completely missed what Eddie has been trying to preach all along. He's preaching offense from the clinch, and he is willing to absorb anything that follows that line of thinking. Just look at the Rubber Guard for instance. Lots of really good rubber guard players in our organization, but each does his own thing from he Rubber Guard philosophy.

I get to Rubber Guard and I'm looking to play for he Meathook. Nathan is going to the Dead Orchard, Barncat is going to the shoulder trap series. Eddie is looking for invisible collar. Etc... All are built off of the same thinking and strategy, however different the paths may turn out.

This is a great way of describing it, I never thought about it that way. I guess like most people outside of 10th Planet my exposure is seeing the material in the books/dvd's. Before I started lurking here, I though everyone played the same game.

[Aiseop]

Thinking of it as a philosophy is an excellent way of putting it, Brandon. Thank you.

To the original question: I still think that it'd be pretty hard to "suck at takedowns" and be a black belt. Compared to other black belts? Perhaps you can suck. But to the general population, no freaking way. But you wouldn't say that a top-player black belt "sucks at guard" just because their guard isn't up to par to other black belts.

Slick Rick wrote:
I think though, that specializing in 10P specific techniques give us a leg up on the competition, because we know our game and we're dissecting theirs, while they know their game but aren't giving reps to ours.

From my experience with my gym, ATT, and overall ATT schools, Liborio and the coaches welcome any and all effective jiu-jitsu. (ATT's history is as a Carlson Gracie offshoot and if you remember, Carlson did not get along too well with the Gracie's in style or philosophy. So there's no "this is real jiu-jitsu" thinking at ATT because Liborio heard that aimed at him and his instructor Carlson.) The problem with ATT (or east coast area) is lack of qualified 10th P folks to teach us, but there are those, like me, who certainly come here and are hungry for the next MTS episode.

[Chris Herzog]

The problem with ATT (or east coast area) is lack of qualified 10th P folks to teach us, but there are those, like me, who certainly come here and are hungry for the next MTS episode.

I am super accessable, all anyone have to do is show up, I teach anyone willing to learn that isn't an asshole. I hold yearly training camps and other 10p seminars at my gym, not to mention the number of seminars I teach each year. Saying not enough qualified 10p instructors is an excuse for people not to put work in. I went out and made it happen. People arent happy unless shit is delivered to them. If you can't go to 10th Planet, bring it to you.

I get people that message me all the time asking me why i dont teach in Buffalo or Syracuse all the time. They are an hour away from Rochester, lazy bastids. I have students that drive 2 hrs each way to train multiple times per week. If you want it, really really want it, its accessable to everyone if you put in the effort.

Louis Ho did it, JM and Zach did it, I did it. No one brought 10p to our doors steps, we had to go out and get it.

[Troy Yang]

Yes, I'm a white belt but at our school we started started standing from day one, of course once it hits the ground it's a whole different thing