Lockdown: What to do when your opponent stiffens his leg and becomes "immovable"?

[mountveggie]

So I've been using the lockdown with pretty good results for quite some time now.

BUT.... recently, a guy from my gym with a rather strong back and legs (note: not a big dude, only about the same size as myself - i.e. average-sized fella) started using a rather interesting defence.

He simply stiffens his leg and drops his weight on it, which incredibly, makes him seemingly impossible to budge (even with whip ups, whip downs, and everything in-between - well, everything I know how to do anyway - he doesn't budge, and I can't move him or cut any angles under him).

From there, the option I have left (in my repertoire anyway) is to grab the overhook, abandon the lockdown and attempt a butterfly escape. This of course, worked the first few times, and now he (obviously) knows it's the only option I have left, and is ready for it - meaning I have almost no game against him when I'm at the bottom.

Pretty sure this situation comes up a lot more often in 10p schools, since everyone's using the lockdown and lockdown counters. The question I'm hoping you guys can help answer is - what can I do about this "stiffen the leg so I'm immovable" defence? Is there any way of unbalancing the guy on top, cutting angles or making the lockdown work against someone like this?

Thanks in advance for any advice guys!

[HerbChao]

Do you have the underhooks or he does? One thing I've used which helps me mix up my lockdown is alot of the Nogeuria sweeps (he shows this in his old book Guard for MMA) where oftentimes he either doesn't have an ideal lockdown, can't get the same side underhook, etc and basically he's able to still sweep/roll the opponent when done correctly. Do you have any options to Stomp or SUper Stomp? One thing Pat has been showing me recently is how versatile stomp/super stomp is for when lockdown isn't getting it done.

[mountveggie]

Do you have the underhooks or he does? One thing I've used which helps me mix up my lockdown is alot of the Nogeuria sweeps (he shows this in his old book Guard for MMA) where oftentimes he either doesn't have an ideal lockdown, can't get the same side underhook, etc and basically he's able to still sweep/roll the opponent when done correctly. Do you have any options to Stomp or SUper Stomp? One thing Pat has been showing me recently is how versatile stomp/super stomp is for when lockdown isn't getting it done.

Getting the underhooks isn't a problem, but even with those underhooks, I still can't move seem to him. So yup, the stomp/super stomp become my "bail out" options (which makes my half guard/lockdown game against this dude predictable and of course, easy to stop/counter).

Those Nogeuria sweeps you mentioned sound interesting though! Haven't seen or even heard of them - any videos or material on them that I can find online?

[Rhys]

If the lockdown's not working, you might have to go to traditional half and start working some sweeps from there. Get him thinking about other things, then switch back to the lockdown

[Isaac Atley]

I'm assuming that when you get the lockdown you stretch your legs to keep it tight?

What eddie mentioned in one of the MTS episodes and what I've used often is doing a butterfly stretch with the lockdown. instead of stretching your legs out and keeping their leg straight, what you do is keep your legs crossed like your doing a butterfly stretch and the pressure of the sides of your legs keeps him in place. when he tries to do something, then you straighten your leg. This allows you to be a lot more mobile while having a much more surprising defense. he gets nothing out of putting his weight on you and you just wait for the moment he moves then stretch your legs. it breaks his base and gives you the opportunity to move, whether it is getting underhooks, electric chair or whatever. dogfight maybe.

hope that helps.

[Chad C.]

I'm assuming that when you get the lockdown you stretch your legs to keep it tight?

What eddie mentioned in one of the MTS episodes and what I've used often is doing a butterfly stretch with the lockdown. instead of stretching your legs out and keeping their leg straight, what you do is keep your legs crossed like your doing a butterfly stretch and the pressure of the sides of your legs keeps him in place. when he tries to do something, then you straighten your leg. This allows you to be a lot more mobile while having a much more surprising defense. he gets nothing out of putting his weight on you and you just wait for the moment he moves then stretch your legs. it breaks his base and gives you the opportunity to move, whether it is getting underhooks, electric chair or whatever. dogfight maybe.

hope that helps.

Which episode was this in?

[Arman Fathi]

Do you have the underhooks or he does? One thing I've used which helps me mix up my lockdown is alot of the Nogeuria sweeps (he shows this in his old book Guard for MMA) where oftentimes he either doesn't have an ideal lockdown, can't get the same side underhook, etc and basically he's able to still sweep/roll the opponent when done correctly. Do you have any options to Stomp or SUper Stomp? One thing Pat has been showing me recently is how versatile stomp/super stomp is for when lockdown isn't getting it done.

+1 on fighting for the doubleunderhooks. If you can get on your toe and knee on your locked down leg, it makes this battle more winable since your can use gravity to more effectively dig for the underhook. Also develop the reflex of taking the free underhook if he posts his hand on your knee and ditches the clinch. Once you get the underhooks you want, get top-heavy and get a butterfly hook with your non-locked down knee, then stay top heavy and tri-pod your knee out of his half guard, no hand pass, use your free knee to donkey kick his thigh and pull your knee out, finishing in reverse twister side control, also referred as kesa getami.

Hope this helps. Tried to reproduce frame by frame from Eddies seminar

[Arman Fathi]

So I've been using the lockdown with pretty good results for quite some time now.

BUT.... recently, a guy from my gym with a rather strong back and legs (note: not a big dude, only about the same size as myself - i.e. average-sized fella) started using a rather interesting defence.

He simply stiffens his leg and drops his weight on it, which incredibly, makes him seemingly impossible to budge (even with whip ups, whip downs, and everything in-between - well, everything I know how to do anyway - he doesn't budge, and I can't move him or cut any angles under him).

From there, the option I have left (in my repertoire anyway) is to grab the overhook, abandon the lockdown and attempt a butterfly escape. This of course, worked the first few times, and now he (obviously) knows it's the only option I have left, and is ready for it - meaning I have almost no game against him when I'm at the bottom.

Pretty sure this situation comes up a lot more often in 10p schools, since everyone's using the lockdown and lockdown counters. The question I'm hoping you guys can help answer is - what can I do about this "stiffen the leg so I'm immovable" defence? Is there any way of unbalancing the guy on top, cutting angles or making the lockdown work against someone like this?

Thanks in advance for any advice guys!

Damn just went back and re-read it. I didn't healize you were the guy on the bottom.

I think someone mentioned above to ditch the lockdown and go to regular half guard, subsequently fighting to get on your side and not flattened out. Maybe try to post your feet on his calf to keep his leg immobile and change the angle of your hips. If nothing else this could give you another whip down combo possibility if you have the underhooks. Its always an underhook battle though. Always. In gi, I've gotten sleeve choked a few times if I don't keep a good clinch. The tradeoff in that the gi and belt make the clinch easier. In no-gi, the space could possibly give him an opportunity to fight for the underhook using that detail of him being on his toe and knee of his locked down leg. This effectively kills the lockdown, but this becomes free cheese if we're talking about transitioning to dogfight or something or other. Hope this helps a little

[mountveggie]

Thanks guys for the advice, will definitely try them out.

Arman, you nearly had me bamboozled there - was reading your first post and trying to picture all that in my brain, and thought "man, this must be jits at another level!" Alas.........

Isaac, that butterfly stretch sounds really interesting. Any idea which episode it was in, or what specific technique Eddie was teaching when he said that?

[Joey Wren]

Definitely check out the techniques page on the forum. Then just search lockdown and it will give you some places to look where the lockdown was specifically addressed in the MTS videos. Hopefully you can find a solution to your problem there. =)