used RG for the first time

[Arman Fathi]

He trains and competes strictly in gi and told me that RG would be harder because of the added friction of the gi... but then he said "although Eddie Bravo wears gi pants and he pulls it off". Then he tells me it's going to be hard for me to break my opponent down in a gi.

He gets into my guard to show me. Grabs my lapel, and postures up strong. So I start fighting with his arms, swimming under and all that. After about 5 seconds of this, my gi kind of comes open and his arms are wide so he looses the pressure on my chest.

I sit up, clinch him, and sit back.

I was thinking about this thread in a roll earlier today. (apologize in advance for bringing Gi talk into a no-gi forum A trick Clark Gracie showed me a little while back that I hadn't taken advantage of enough is gripping both your hands on one side of his lapel and tugging him down, as you pull your legs in as well. Clark works the omoplata or cross choke/arm bar sequence from there, but I found it's a perfect setup for rubber guard in the gi. It doesn't matter where his hands are; you're gonna break his posture. I've found it very, very difficult for the guy to win the posture battle if he lets me get 2 on 1. The 2 on 1 is just so damn powerful. I haven't met a guy that's been able to keep his posture when I tug him in like that, even if his hands are on your hips or pinning your chest. Guy I went against fell in like everyone else had, but this was the first time I had ever applied the principle since learning the basics of rubber guard. He fell right into crackhead and eventually gave me a triangle. There was also a lot of friction preventing him from posturing up, and my understanding as to one of the main reasons rubber guard was created was because Eddie didn't have the added friction to help out. So from a gi perspective, I think rubber guard can work magic, especially with the ability to break the guys posture w/o him expecting it to happen so suddenly as with this method.

[Craig Murray]

gripping both your hands on one side of his lapel and tugging him down,.

My natural instinct, based on my extensive career in jiujitsu going back 5 weeks, is to clinch. Getting grips and using them elaborately for extended periods is one way to play in a gi, but it seems wrong to me, and it doesn't jive with my approach (yes I have a philosophy on how I should build my JJ game, despite having basically zero mat time)

I'm treating a gi grip like I treat a very small toe-hole in rock climbing. Use it as a leverage point but move past it quickly, into a clinch. Don't hang out there. When I see nogi guys go at it, they really have to lunge at stuff because if they dont get a full clean clinch, the dude is out. In gi you can do a little 1-2 punch on them, grab gi and yank, BAM, grab clinch. Claw and scratch at that gi... or grab some gi as you're loosing your clinch.

I'm practicing this every day on my dummy. In Jiu Claw when I'm trying to stabilize him and get arm around waist. I'm grabbing at the gi to get myself closer to him, or to help sit myself up more, to get some leverage, trying to get against him tight with arm around waist. Maybe grab the back of his collar or a wad of gi on his shoulder to help me get up and around his neck for Imanari.

I'm going to start looking for that 2-handed lapel grip you're talking about Arman for breaking down a guy, that sounds awesome.

There is plenty of talk about added friction in a gi. I suspect that for larger guys this is very true. If you have big thick legs and arms full of bone and muscle, the amount of contact is really high, and all that gi contact creates massive friction. If you bring up mission control and your leg is dragging against the guy's back, it's going to be WAY harder to get it up. Same for double bag, same for a lot of shit.

I am so skinny my points of contact are much smaller. The amount of friction is partly a function of contact area. Getting my leg into mission control is going to harder against a guy in a gi than a guy in a rashgard, but not prohibitively so. And that friction goes both ways, pulling out of my crackhead, or invisible collar, or even ducking down to give me the omoplata, all harder for him in gi.

Is an omoplata easier to hold (or finish) in a gi or in a rashgard?

The first thing you learn in Jiu Jitsu is to not get killed. Defend yourself and prevent this guy who knows a lot more than you from tapping you. But the second thing you learn is to control someone. Once you are the one doing the controlling, the gi is now on your side. When you like the position and he doesn't, gi is your friend.

I'm pretty sure skinny flexible guy in a gi can play RG just fine. And I suspect that RG against a guy who isn't practiced at defending RG is really really bad news for the guy.

[Arman Fathi]

My natural instinct, based on my extensive career in jiujitsu going back 5 weeks, is to clinch. Getting grips and using them elaborately for extended periods is one way to play in a gi, but it seems wrong to me, and it doesn't jive with my approach (yes I have a philosophy on how I should build my JJ game, despite having basically zero mat time)
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I apologize, I should have been more clear. Obviously we'd like to do techniques that would transfer over to no-gi as much as possible. The entire rubber guard game is dependent on breaking their posture. This is done by establishing the clinch. By breaking their posture by whichever means we know how, we can secure the clinch and go to work.

In no-gi, he doesn't have your belt and your lapels to grab on to and help him get a handle as he stands to pass your guard. Consequently, you have nothing to pull him back with. In gi, it can get pretty annoying having to break the guys grip on your lapel or your belt, so why not just fight fire with fire and yank him into you? From there, clinch him tight and work toward mission control. Don't be afraid to use the gi. But also, don't grow dependent on it. Rather, use it as a guide to help you determine where your hand positioning would be most ideal. More often than not, it's the same place you'd put your hands in no-gi, only the grip would be much more transient since there's no cloth to latch on to.

Is an omoplata easier to hold (or finish) in a gi or in a rashgard? \

Gi. No question. His defense would generally be to roll out of it, and without a gi things get really slippery.

Defend yourself and prevent this guy who knows a lot more than you from tapping you.

But never neglect an opportunity to be a learner first, be a sponge, and ask for feedback. No one walks into the academy trying to get tapped, but ironically it's those rolls that I've learned the most by far. Even if you roll with a guy and only get one tiny nugget of information from it that you file away for later, it was a productive training session.