Miyao out of ADCC, hurt in EBI?

[David Rosado]

Lol at being objective, this from a guy who makes sad posts that he has to put a gi on to train bjj, yeah, you're not biased

Anyway, taking what I said than trying to use it as yout argument is weak, maybe you should post in a gi to tighten up your posting game

Wow, what a logical response. You totally disproved me by commenting about my preferences. Smh. My training preferences are irrelevant to the discussion considering that some of my favorite players are gi players and favorite matches are gi matches. And you further show your bias and inability to use logic and objectivity.

So because of that, I'm done. Have a good one.

[Liquidrob]

By the way, holler at Tonon. Ask him how Weidman does in their rolls. And then research how many adcc or IBJJF black belt mundial medals he has. Once you know that, you can see how some guys can have elite skills without having to play in the elite leagues.

Look up the medalists for the 2014 Ibjjf no gi worlds. The only "elite" guys there are the ones who got gold. EBI had more "names" than the no gi mundials.

Having elite skills and saying someone is elite are to different things, Chris is not an elite bjj competitor, saying he is disrespectful to all the guys that compete in bjj currently

Its nothing against Weidman, but those are facts and how things are judged

[Jack Hanley]

Weidman's name coming into this thread about Miyao is actually really interesting.

Purely in terms of ADCC performance, they're actually not as far apart as a lot of people would assume.

They both won ADCC qualifiers.
They have each competed in one ADCC.
Chris won one match and then got eliminated by Galvao in a highly lauded match.
Miyao won two matches and then got eliminated by Rafa in a highly lauded match.

If Miyao had gotten Rafa earlier or if Weidman had gotten Galvao later, they might have ended up with identical ADCC records.

Even if you go beyond ADCC and start taking into account all reaping/heelhooking no-gi grappling events they are still probably a lot closer than people think.

Weidman apparently went to a Grapplers Quest after 3 months of training and won his division along with an absolute finishing all 13 opponents by submission. (http://www.bjjee.com/featured/ufc-ch...k-belt-in-bjj/). As an aside, can you imagine what this guy could have done if the money was in grappling instead of MMA?

I have seen reports that Miyao won a GQ pro divison or something once. I also know about his recent matches with Tonon and at EBI 4. But, I don't know too much about him really having competed that extensively in a reaping/heelhooking context (at least in North America).

I thought the two were an interesting comparison in this regard. I haven't gone back and double checked all of this, so if someone sees a discrepancy let me know.

tl;dr Weidman and Miyao may not be as far apart as people think in reaping/heelhooking submission grappling.

[Liquidrob]

Miyao has won the ADCC trials twice, 4th place in ADCC, and other various No Gi matches

Saying Weidman at this point is an elite BJJ competitor is crazy, could he be? Sure, but he doesn't even compete in Bjj anymore

If you want to break BJJ down to heelhooking sub grappling go ahead, but there are guys competing in all rules, gi and no gi consistently

[Liquidrob]

I know some people knock Miyao. I'm certainly not. I admire his warrior spirit. I do think his game is significantly less effective without the threat of points. That's what I think his real problem was. The berimbolo isn't as much of a threat when I can just concede the sweep. That's the major difference between sub only and points to me. I don't have to blow my wad keeping you from sweeping me or taking me down. You got me on my butt. Now what?

Having said that, I think that training for and competing in points tournaments is great, too. I think if you can't take 2 points when you need it, that's a weakness.

The thing with the Miyaos guards, a lot these top guard players is you pretty much have to attack there feet when on top

There guards are so good, no one is passing, No Gi makes it even harder, when you run into a Miyao and he pulls guard you will have to attack the legs because you will never pass and get swept

[Liquidrob]

On the UG a couple guys are suggesting he is having visa issues, so if he goes to ADCC he won't be able to come back

[Jack Hanley]

On the UG a couple guys are suggesting he is having visa issues, so if he goes to ADCC he won't be able to come back

That's actually a more reasonable explanation. I could see this being why he dropped out.

[Mike Nall]

I've heard it might actually be VISA issue and that Joao is worried that he might not be able to re-enter the United States if he leaves. That would actually explain a lot, why he's competed this past weekend and what not. The Miyaos compete all the time in any ruleset and they aren't known to be very calculated. Some of the theories of Joao being hurt, but not wanting to show that they're hurt, so they're competing in IBJJF events where his knees will be safer. They just don't really jive with his almost aspergers type personality. It actually makes more sense than anything that they wouldn't want to leave. They are not officially instructors at their academy. I wouldn't be surprised if he and his brother just had non-immigratny visas of some sort.

I've heard that it can be very difficult to obtain U.S. citizenship from Brazil.

[Mike Nall]

Having elite skills and saying someone is elite are to different things, Chris is not an elite bjj competitor, saying he is disrespectful to all the guys that compete in bjj currently

Its nothing against Weidman, but those are facts and how things are judged

I agree but man I would really love to see Weidman do ADCC again. I think he could medal on his wrestling alone. Garry Tonon just posted that he would bet on Weidman in a "sub only grappling match with any high level grappler in his weight category."

Tonon said Weidman has darce choked him over 450 times when rolling over the years. His front headlock series was one of the most exciting things about him. I was waiting a long time for a wrestler of that caliber to attack the neck like that. Also I think we got to see a bit of the Danaher leglock system with Weidman and Silva in their first fight. It takes a lot of confidence to drop onto the legs of someone like Silva and risk ending up in the bottom.

But I agree with you that if he's not competing in submission grappling that it might be unfair to call him elite. I do think his skill level probably is. Everyone that trains with him says he's a legit phenom.

[Liquidrob]

I agree but man I would really love to see Weidman do ADCC again. I think he could medal on his wrestling alone. Garry Tonon just posted that he would bet on Weidman in a "sub only grappling match with any high level grappler in his weight category."

Tonon said Weidman has darce choked him over 450 times when rolling over the years. His front headlock series was one of the most exciting things about him. I was waiting a long time for a wrestler of that caliber to attack the neck like that. Also I think we got to see a bit of the Danaher leglock system with Weidman and Silva in their first fight. It takes a lot of confidence to drop onto the legs of someone like Silva and risk ending up in the bottom.

But I agree with you that if he's not competing in submission grappling that it might be unfair to call him elite. I do think his skill level probably is. Everyone that trains with him says he's a legit phenom.

He would be great to watch, I love there old ADCCs where a bunch of MMA guys would compete, Tito, Hughes, Kerr, etc...it war great seeing the different styles