10th planet JJ vs JJ Fundamentals?

[detroitwillfall]

In the early years of 10p, I focused most of my teachings on a very aggressive clinching offense. I didn't spend much time on defense at all. In football there's an old saying, "the best defense is a good offense", and that was my mind set back then. But now with the 32 flows that are in the 10p warm up curriculum, defense and escapes have become a very big part of the system.

definitely, alot of the remarks i got from my instructor during rolls even with "bigger stronger/more experienced grapplers" was i needed to stop thinking defense and attack. just because you defend ok doesnt mean you HAVE to, so ive tried from then on to have a more offensive mindset.


@ master eddie, i recall reading a thread from mixedmartialarts.com the 2nd post down said you should be a gracie bluebelt and be able to put your leg behind your head before starting 10th planet system? im not sure i the user was trolling or if this indeed was something mentioned but just curious as it relates to the topic of "fundamental" or not. as im deciding to start your system! heres the links http://www.mixedmartialarts.com/thre...-beginner-BJJ/

[DaveScott]

I don't believe any technique is "a fundamental." However, all techniques can be "fundamental." Let me explain myself.

The fundamentals are not specific techniques. They are, rather, ideas. Philosophies. Expressions. Concepts.

The fundamentals are things like Weight Distribution, Timing, Patience, Proper Framing, Maximizing Leverage, etc...

So a technique like the Bridge and Roll escape is taught on Day One, but why is it that only incredible Black Belts seem to be able to pull it off? Because their understanding of the fundamentals of Jiu Jitsu is so deep that they can convey powerful principles with simple techniques.

Those fundamental principles can be expressed through any technique, provided the teacher has a meaningful understanding of the principles. This is why someone like Jean Jacques Machado can look at your technique, even if it's not a technique that he has ever used, and help you to improve it dramatically. His understanding of Jiu Jitsu is so deep that he can turn any technique, no matter how foreign it may be, into Jiu Jitsu. That's powerful.

So, there are no fundamental techniques. There are only fundamental ideas, and these can be expressed through a variety of curriculums.

Brandon you complete me

[David Rosado]

Damn. Awesome wisdom in here.

Eddie, thanks for always looking to optimize the no gi game.

BMAC, your wisdom is highly appreciated. I never took a "basics" class in my life, and yet, I have all the same basics everyone else and some extras.

[Apperz]

Coming from sport and most recently gracie jiu jitsu training, i was wondering peoples thoughts and opinions regarding the very controversial statement of "10th planet lacks fundamental jiu jitsu"? In example, escapes and defenses from basic positions, transitioning/maintaining good positions, and basic attacks?

I'd tell them to review the warmups then ask them what we're missing...

[Damian J]

I started my first 2 years of training at a "traditional" bjj school with, what was supposed to be, a set curriculum. I can say having been training solely at 10th Planet San Diego for the past year, I felt like I had wasted a lot of time having trained at my first school. The amount that I am able to learn from Boogey in each class is exponentially more than I learned in my first school. One of my closest friends trains at a very good Gracie school. I was talking to him and explaining that we don't just learn a single technique in each class. We go through the scripted warmups and then learn multiple techniques that chain together. And that, intellectually just makes more sense for me. I've talked to many friends from other schools who feel like our warmups should be implemented in every school. I debated going and also training in the gi again, but I went and rolled with my buddy at his place and it reaffirmed that it just doesn't interest me right now. Just like what Geo said in his interview. I will probably someday go back to the gi in the future, but for now I just feel like we learn all of the "fundamental" concepts of jiu jitsu in our programs.

[detroitwillfall]

I'd tell them to review the warmups then ask them what we're missing...

Glad i was able to bookmark the HQ warmups from youtube! so true!

[detroitwillfall]

I started my first 2 years of training at a "traditional" bjj school with, what was supposed to be, a set curriculum. I can say having been training solely at 10th Planet San Diego for the past year, I felt like I had wasted a lot of time having trained at my first school. The amount that I am able to learn from Boogey in each class is exponentially more than I learned in my first school. One of my closest friends trains at a very good Gracie school. I was talking to him and explaining that we don't just learn a single technique in each class. We go through the scripted warmups and then learn multiple techniques that chain together. And that, intellectually just makes more sense for me. I've talked to many friends from other schools who feel like our warmups should be implemented in every school. I debated going and also training in the gi again, but I went and rolled with my buddy at his place and it reaffirmed that it just doesn't interest me right now. Just like what Geo said in his interview. I will probably someday go back to the gi in the future, but for now I just feel like we learn all of the "fundamental" concepts of jiu jitsu in our programs.

Its just sad to me how many people like myself were easily misled into this line of thinking that 10th planet was lacking fundamentals or was inadequate for a beginners fundamentals.

It disgusts me the amount of marketing GJJ goes through, my first experience with their organization was an affiliate who was like a cookie-cutter talking speaking version of rener. Technique ok yes fine, but phrases, mannerisms, ugh. No thanks, and dont get me started on the money part.

Glad to have soo many people hear clarify these urban myths so to speak lol.

[Craig Murray]

Glad i was able to bookmark the HQ warmups from youtube! so true!

The live warmup videos are nice but unless you have a 10p instructor to work with, you might find it hard to get that much out of them.

I would suggest signing up for MTS ($5/month). Then you can watch Eddie break down the warmups one technique at a time with all of the details described. There are a large number of critically important details in any Jiu Jitsu technique. The warmups are very densely packed with technique which means a mountain of details are going by very quickly. If you don't get the details right you'll just end up practicing bad technique.

I would also suggest the RG book and DVD.

[detroitwillfall]

The live warmup videos are nice but unless you have a 10p instructor to work with, you might find it hard to get that much out of them.

I would suggest signing up for MTS ($5/month). Then you can watch Eddie break down the warmups one technique at a time with all of the details described. There are a large number of critically important details in any Jiu Jitsu technique. The warmups are very densely packed with technique which means a mountain of details are going by very quickly. If you don't get the details right you'll just end up practicing bad technique.

I would also suggest the RG book and DVD.

good advice! i have all the books and dvds except the newer RG book. im currently talking to the Ann Arbor 10th Planet affiliate about joining ect so should resolve all this soon enough

[Ernest]

When I travel, I visit a lot of gyms for open mat.

One of the big differences within 10th planet is the ability for a white and blue belt to leg lock. 10th planet doesn't limit your learning.

Every BJJ gym I have been to bans leg locks, except for brown belts and up.