I dont think the ref should call it.
People need to learn to tap and to take responisbility for the tap.
Ive seen the kimura/americana/armbar comparison before - I dont think its appropriate. For sure, people sleep on how delicate the shoulder is and for sure these moves can fuck peoples shit up. Theres a couple of distinctions though, familiarity and range of motion. Most people see and experience kimuras, americanas and armbars from the very beginning of their training. They are also more intuitive with regard to a "breaking point". They also take longer to complete over a larger range of motion. There is also a muscular resistance aspect that can slow the movement down.
In general, people dont have the same exposure to heelhooks. The range of motion is extremely small and can be completed extremely quickly. To go from ok to fucked up can be done in a second. No amount of muscular flexion can really slow it down if its locked in correctly. Its absoulutely stunning to think of the damage that can be done in such a short period of time. I really think this is what people need to think about before going down the upper v lowerbody submissions route.
Hopefully going forward there will be a shift in how early and thoroughly people are exposed to heelhooks and how to defend them. Hopefully that stops the "they should be banned completly" bullshit.
That said, I do lean towards them being banned for children. 16 years is a child in my eyes regardless of training age and I think its a big ask for a 16year old to tap correctly in the heat of competition. Particularly to a move that can cause so much damage so quickly.
All of that said Ive seen more injuries in training from throws, and wrestling takedowns than upperbody submissions. Ive never seen an injury in training to a leglock in either bjj or sambo.
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Originally Posted by Chris Herzog
