Wisconsin teachers

[Jason Hyatt]

Would you as a jiu jitsu student pay $30 per hour for privates with a bad ass brown belt like Herzog? I bet he charges more than that. Lets cut you a break at a rate of $20


for you this breaks down as follows:
1.5 hr class
3 nights a week
4 weeks a month

=$360

I will pm Coach Herzog about your new rate plan.

Baby sitters charge for %100 attention per hr. My kids are not getting 6hrs of attention from anybody at there school.

If teacher puts in 12hrs a day
5 days a week
36 weeks per year

that's 2160 hrs a year. At 51,000 dollars a year they are making $23.61 dollars an hr if you factor in there benefits that's $32.41 per hr that seems reasonable for a four year degree plus a masters and a teaching certificate.

Neither of our calculations take into consideration all factors like Holidays or cost of living.(51,000 is a pretty good salary in Tx. probably doesn't go as far in NY) The point is you are over simplifying a complicated economic scenario.

Fixed.

Your babysitter gives your kids 100% attention the whole time? I certainly hope they are paid well. Every babysitter I've ever met did little more than make sure they are fed and alive when you get home. Did your babysitter also teach them long division while you were out?

Of course it's an oversimplification. So is saying they are overpaid and greedy because they make slightly more than the average middle class worker (that's especially galling when it's said by a pundit who makes MUCH, MUCH more for doing little beyond criticizing people because they differ politically. At least a teacher contributes positively to society. What does a pundit do that contributes to the benefit of anyone at all?).

Obviously, a lot more goes into deducing a salary from a budget. My point, again, was not to say that they SHOULD be paid $5 an hour per child, but rather that even a gross oversimplification demonstrates that they clearly are NOT overpaid; not for what they are expected to do, the responsibility they have, the shit they take day in and day out, and the work it takes to become a teacher in the first place. Yes, it's a reasonable living wage. After 7 years of advanced education and a licensing exam I would expect to paid a reasonable living wage, wouldn't you? They also offered to take a pay cut. And they were repaid by being called greedy and overpaid. That's plain old fashioned bullshit in my opinion.

Sidebar: Coach is definitely worth $360 a month.

[Jason Hyatt]

Teachers know about the job before they take it, they need to stop whining and get back to work, or get out of the way so someone who wants to work can have their job.

Unions are gangster thugs that need to be broke up, they have gotten out of control.

My 2 cents

Isn't that pretty much true of every job? You pretty well know what you're getting into, so no matter what happens you should just shut up and take it, right? I mean hey, you sign up to be a miner you just accept you're gonna get black lung disease. Too damn bad if your health insurance is cancelled because you got sick. You knew what you were getting into when you signed up. It's not it's news; that's been going on for generations. Get out of the way so someone else can dig that coal and quit your bitching. You join the Army in the middle of two wars you know you might end up with a traumatic head injury. If the Army decides your head injury is only worth 30% disability and you end up homeless, well hey, you knew that when you signed up. It's not like nobody knows soldiers are getting screwed out of lifetime benefits every day; it's been in the news for years. It's a dangerous job and if you don't like it get out of the way and let someone else do the job, right?

Of course not. That's patently ridiculous. Simply because a job comes with hardships does not mean those working the job don't have the right to petition for a redress of grievances (I seem to remember reading that somewhere. Oh yeah. The Constitution...). Would you call miners greedy bastards because they get paid well enough and they know what they're getting into? Would you call soldiers whiners for not being content with the pittance the Pentagon shells out each month to them? I wouldn't. All the unions are asking for is to not have their right to bargain collectively taken away from them. They already agreed to the other concessions. What is so unreasonable about that?

[Jason Hyatt]

I'm sorry guys. I've been cooped up in this house for the last two days with a Crohn's flare and I'm feeling hostile. I'm nauseated, I can't eat hardly anything at all (but I'm starving), and I'm totally out of the one thing that makes that better (and my guy is out of town until Friday). I don't mean to be a prick. I just need to get on the mats and have a good roll and I'll be fine. No hard feelings fellas.

[Ashley Kennedy-Foster]

i can't speak for anyone else, but i didn't think you were being a prick - i thought it was just a heated discussion, i don't think anyone was being too out of line.

Hope to see you on the mats soon Jason, we can duke it out then;-)

[Jonathan Wylie]

I'm sorry guys. I've been cooped up in this house for the last two days with a Crohn's flare and I'm feeling hostile. I'm nauseated, I can't eat hardly anything at all (but I'm starving), and I'm totally out of the one thing that makes that better (and my guy is out of town until Friday). I don't mean to be a prick. I just need to get on the mats and have a good roll and I'll be fine. No hard feelings fellas.

Dude? no hard feelings here! we are just shooting the shit on internet forum. I hope you get some natural medicine soon and feel better. I concede to a lot of what you say. I don't believe teachers are overpaid I just thought your original post was a little to bleeding heart for these teachers comparing them to factory workers in third world countries and shit lmao Like Ron said they know what they are getting into. My sister In law is going to school to be a teacher and she's already crying about how they are under paid and I think that's ridiculous. I just want to yell at her "either change your degree or stfu!"(but the wife wouldn't like that to much) They probably have enough pity for their selves and don't deserve yours. By the way I appreciate your intelligent and stimulating posts.

[stlnl]

Teachers DO NOT average 8 hour days. How many teachers do you guys know personally? I know a couple, and the only time they are at work more than 8 is a special activity (for which they get compensated to engage in, coaching/chaperone/etc) or during their first year, when they are learning thier job. A life long friend of mine, gets to work just before school starts and he is out the door within 10 mins of the bell ringing. He is one of the best teachers around (he has won several awards, and is respected wholly by his peers) but he makes no BS arguments about his job being tough. He does say, the first year or two is hard, because it isnt an easy job (no "job" is easy, and alot of teachers to be think their job will be easy) and alot of the kids starting out are not getting similar starting salaries to what other professions may start at.

When I said how many days they work, I figured in teacher work days and planning days. Teachers, do have a job that can be tough (trying to "parent" kids who in some cases have zero parenting/adult guidance and get dropped into their laps, and dealing with a general apathetic vibe at times from parents and kids) but one thing, for sure, isnt rough about the job, and that is the hours worked. Any of you buying that 12 hour a day thing, dont know any teachers.

[stlnl]

Isn't that pretty much true of every job? You pretty well know what you're getting into, so no matter what happens you should just shut up and take it, right? I mean hey, you sign up to be a miner you just accept you're gonna get black lung disease. Too damn bad if your health insurance is cancelled because you got sick. You knew what you were getting into when you signed up. It's not it's news; that's been going on for generations. Get out of the way so someone else can dig that coal and quit your bitching. You join the Army in the middle of two wars you know you might end up with a traumatic head injury. If the Army decides your head injury is only worth 30% disability and you end up homeless, well hey, you knew that when you signed up. It's not like nobody knows soldiers are getting screwed out of lifetime benefits every day; it's been in the news for years. It's a dangerous job and if you don't like it get out of the way and let someone else do the job, right?

Of course not. That's patently ridiculous. Simply because a job comes with hardships does not mean those working the job don't have the right to petition for a redress of grievances (I seem to remember reading that somewhere. Oh yeah. The Constitution...). Would you call miners greedy bastards because they get paid well enough and they know what they're getting into? Would you call soldiers whiners for not being content with the pittance the Pentagon shells out each month to them? I wouldn't. All the unions are asking for is to not have their right to bargain collectively taken away from them. They already agreed to the other concessions. What is so unreasonable about that?

My copy of the constitution is in the other room in a pile of books, But I guess I missed the right to redress work grievances........so quote it up for me if you would.

[Jonathan Wylie]

ya, I don't believe there are any teachers working 12 hrs a day unless they choose to. I had a teacher in high school that stayed after like 2 days a week and tutored anybody who wanted it but he was one of those rare cool teachers you never forget.

[Ron Almeida]

Like I said in the earlier post, you know the job before you go into it, if its going to be to hard for you maybe you should apply for something else.

What do us self employed people get? nothing, not even unemployment if work gets slow, and I dont even whine about it.

I am so tired of people whining about everything, just shut up and do it or get out of the way so someone else who wants to can.

[Jason Hyatt]

My copy of the constitution is in the other room in a pile of books, But I guess I missed the right to redress work grievances........so quote it up for me if you would.

Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances."

Government employees petitioning the government for a redress of work grievances.