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  1. #1

    Array

    School
    Rocha BJJ / Gracie Humaita
    Location
    Oakland, CA
    Posts
    450

    Do TPJJ fighters make the same mistakes as traditionalist Gracie JJ?

    We all have seen that it seems the big obstacle in the growth of TPJJ is resistance from traditionalist BJJ experts who seem closed-minded to these new ideas. We have all heard "That's just a stalling technique", "you will definitely destroy your knees", and "name a TPJJ fighter who has won Mundials or ADCC" from haters of even the highest ranks, and it drives me insane. However, I wonder if we sometimes take it in the opposite direction.

    First of all, this is not an attack on TPJJ, I'm a huge believer in the system. But look at the style of most TPJJ guys, such as those in all of the great videos out there. They seem to follow a few distinct paths almost every time. Now, I understand the value of having go-to moves and clear direction in your attacks, but I believe Eddie is the first to say that these techniques are best added to your grappling arsenal, and are strongest when not stand-alone. Eddie is so much more successful at them then anyone else because of his unique way of seeing things, but also because he is a JJM black belt with amazing, non-TPJJ technique and experience. He knows things like how to be heavy on top, and how to move around, from before TPJJ existed. I think many of the newer fighters miss out on the other options they could have because of their dedication to TPJJ (which is primarily a good thing, for the record).

    This is not to say TPJJ is closed-minded. Call out a new idea, or something explained by a good instructor, and everyone discusses its merits on here with no bias. But when you spend all day on lockdown, you work less deep-half. When you play rubber, you don't practice spider-guard or de la riva guard as much. There are very few people like Vinny Magalhaes, or George Sotiropoulos, who have strong traditional backgrounds, but regularly attack with TPJJ, yet I feel that these will be the types who will bring its recognition to the next level. We all talk about "what if BJ Penn, or Demian Maia trained a ton of TPJJ" because people with those abilities could do things with the system that most of us could not even imagine. Well, I encourage the younger fighters to stay true to TPJJ, but also to expose yourself to traditional BJJ, and other grappling arts like wrestling and judo. I think that's how to become the next Eddie.

    Forgive me for the length of this post. I want to know what you guys think about this admittedly high, but still thought-out rant. Am I just not seeing the extent to which people use other stuff? Or is it possible that, in a strong counter-reaction to many BJJ legends shunning this system, some of us return the favor and spend our training learning just about only TPJJ moves?

  2. #2
    I'm always curious as to what these basics are that don't exist inside the 10th Planet system.

  3. #3

    Array

    School
    ninthlevelmma, goldsboro, nc
    Location
    goldsboro, nc
    Posts
    425
    I can see what your saying, but I think, and this is my opinion, one of the biggest innovations that the 10th planet teaches is, to keep an open mind and absorb all you can, and always look at all the options before you and work the one best to you and your personal style. Whereas the traditional bjj guys resist anything that they didn't teach you, that change is just sloppy technique and shortcuts. Its that resistance to change that's fueling the revolution from traditional bjj schools. Not in just us here but look at the catch wrestling revolution that's taking place also. Until they change their views, traditional bjj guys will continue to lose momentum as the others continue to openly except change and new ideas.

  4. #4

    Array

    School
    Pedro bessa, cardiff, wales.
    Posts
    130
    I think it depends if you train in a 10th planet gym. I'm sure in a tenth panet gym they go over the most simplest of techniques and body positions like any bjj school. But I kind of see Aces point if your working from a far,as I am, away from a tenth planet school. After watching keth owen's paper view series, i did realise the basics(i.e subtle body , foot and arm positions) get you along way and maybe i should ,personally, concentrate on that first before developing my tenth planet game.

    I think reading up on lots of material is always going to expand your game than just focusing on one schools ideas imo.

    After watching marcelo garcia continuosly choke out ryan hall, there's definately something to be said at looking at different styles.

  5. #5
    Troll job for sure.

  6. #6
    A lot of people train a lot of different things and aren't good at any of them. I will stick to my lockdown and rubber guard and get great at that.

  7. #7
    I understand what your saying but ive been to many schools and aside from Marco Santos Marcelo Garcia and Eddie Bravo, No instructor told me to figure out what works for me or to go learn everything i can to make me a better Jiu Jitsu Artist, they have been the only open minded instructors ive ever had.
    "If you believe, then you have already taken the first step towards your achievement."

    Rickson Gracie



    www.Primate-Fitness.com

  8. #8

    Array

    School
    10th Planet Ronin/JKD Institute
    Location
    Titusville, FL
    Posts
    1,325
    This will be a regular discussion until a pure 10th Planet practitioner, like Sean Bollinger, goes pro and has success. People are constantly bashing 10th Planet and claiming it's ineffectiveness. You can't teach an old dog new tricks. A lot of MMA guys that go to train with Eddie once or twice, already have 10 years of reps in traditional BJJ. They get a little attention because they mention Eddie and then in their next fight they either don't use what they've learned or they use poor technique. If you've been mounted 100 times before and you're used to bucking like a wild bull, you're not going to suddenly go deep half instead because you learned it in a seminar. People go with what they know. We see a little 10th Planet here and there and get excited but it's going to take the pure 10th Planet practitioner to get us the cred that some of us desire. Personally I like being on the DL a little. Or people doubting us. It gives us the edge. Let people troll. When you get your chance, Vaporize them ; )

  9. #9

    Array

    School
    Pedro bessa, cardiff, wales.
    Posts
    130
    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff Vale View Post
    Troll job for sure.
    no, i don't think so.

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Dennis Martinez View Post
    I understand what your saying but ive been to many schools and aside from Marco Santos Marcelo Garcia and Eddie Bravo, No instructor told me to figure out what works for me or to go learn everything i can to make me a better Jiu Jitsu Artist, they have been the only open minded instructors ive ever had.
    do you train at the same place as Josh Waitzkin?

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