What is wrong with this fight?

[Jack LaBarge]

Oh yeah the Gracie Filter or Helio Filter

Brian Ortega is a Jiu Jitsu black belt who trains and instructs at the Gracie Jiu-Jitsu Academy under Rorion Gracie, and his sons Ryron, Rener, and Ralek Gracie in Torrance, California. He recently made his UFC debut winning by submission vs Michael De La Torre.


According to California State Athletic Commission executive director Andy Foster, who confirmed the news to FOX Sports on Friday, Ortega tested positive for the anabolic steroid drostanolone and he has been suspended for nine months, fined $2500 and will have his win overturned to a no contest.

Ortega failed his pre-fight urine test, which was administered by a World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA) accredited lab in California.

Sherdog.com was the first to report the results.

Ortega has 30 days to file an appeal.

Ortega’s camp has not made a public statement yet on whether or not they will file an appeal with the commission over the drug test result.

[Serge Bunimovich]

I just watched that match one more to give Schaub a benefit of the doubt. No. Hell no. He didn't do shit in that fight. Didn't try to pass. Didn't try to submit. Just ran away for 20 minutes. Maybe he was training for half marathon?? I don't know. What I know is that this match was hella boring to watch, and it wasn't because of Syborg. Schaub should be ashamed of himself. Just my humble, blue belt, opinion.

[Tim Elliott]

I have never been a grappling fan. Watching grappling for entertainment is new to me. I am essentially saying, that fight seemed to really piss the BJJ crowd off, where as I loved it.

It did not alienate this fan. I watch striking normally. I follow Thai Muay Thai. I find Geof Glover un-watchable from an entertainment point of view.

Maybe if the BJJ crowd wants to pull people in from other disciplines and get them to watch metamorius, they should consider that fight fans come to see fights. That was a fight to me, and I really enjoyed Schaubs tactics.

If you invite MMA fighters to grapple, then boo the tactics, how are you going to convert fight fans to grappling fans?

Non grappling educated fans are only going to try and understand the tactics and strategy until they pick up the technique. BJJ people forget until you know a few things, grappling is boring to watch.

I could see what happened, it is why I posted the thread. That fight, to the least educated viewers, was more interesting than a lot of the high level matches. If you had no concept of grappling technique, the interaction between the fighters was fun to watch.

Its a legit tactic. I keep getting told off for clinching at the gym I roll at. "don't pull them onto you, make space and move". Which is great, but they are waaay better than me, and beat me to any open space 10 times out of 10. I don't get the logic of deliberately losing just because it is more exciting. This is a points based, sport attitude to me.

If its not related to real fighting, why should I watch it, as a fight fan? I thought the point of Metamorius was to bring Jiu Jitsu back to real fighting? Submissions, not points? How was Schaub ever going to submit Cyborg by diving into one of the deadliest guards in the world?

Again, I find point based Jiu Jitsu un-watchable, while Metamorius is epic.

The point I am trying to make, is that I sit down with my mates and break down Muay Thai fights, and Schaub/Cyborg was a very accessible fight for us. We could enjoy discussing it while we watched it, with our existing way of looking at fights.

The whole point of it, was it was a fan bridging fight. It bridged this fan well. BJJ crowd, if they want to expand their viewer base, maybe should be more careful of what they boo.

If you want to bring in people who don't think like you and introduce them to paying to watch your sport, be more careful about what you criticise. The ones you hate may well be the very fights you need. It was a very accessible fight for MMA and fight fans and if the crowd had been more positive it would have served its purpose.

Yes it annoyed the hell out of Cyborg and every BJJ person there. That is exactly what I would do if you asked me to get in the ring with Cyborg. What else could I do? I'm dead if he touches me, but I'm hardly going to go in with the intention of that happening am I?

[Tim Bruhn]

What's wrong is this isnt an 'untimed match' it is a 20min match, trying to attract viewers to a new format of watching BJJ.

Schaub doing that was disrespectful to the promoters and audience.

Without an audience you don't have professional athletes, like it or not you have to entertain them in some way.

[Tim Elliott]

I get that. I just find different people find different things entertaining. To my mind all the disrespect was towards Schaub. Tons of it. This is actually what BJJ is most famous for outside BJJ. Failing to respect others and other disciplines. Before that fight I hated Gracie Jiu Jitsu because I have been on the receiving end in the past. Rude brazillian black belts without fight records treating others with contempt.

Everyone wanted to see Schaub in Cyborgs insane guard. I just don't understand why no-one gets it was the last thing Schaub wanted to see? If you just want to see techniques without strategy, is that not called WWF?

The way Schaub was treated was probably the most off putting thing in the whole metamorius series. Hes a brown belt UFC fighter who forced the best grappler in the world to adopt an alternative fight plan, I practically cheered when Cyborg gave up his tornado guard and pulled full guard. MASSIVE win.

Its what makes point fighting so tedious. What is considered a win is pre-determined, where as in open fighting, anything that improves your chances of a finish, is a win. Strategy is completely open.

To anyone who was not involved in the back story, as in any new fan, its 20 minutes of Cyborg lying on his back, complaining Schaub wont join in the one thing he knows how to do. Cyborg has one guard position he wants an no means to get it. To a broader audience, Schaubs conduct seemed in no way disrespectful. Hardly on Schaub.

Sure, Cyborg is amazing, but I never saw any sign of it in that fight. I saw his terrifying guard completely nullified. How is that not cool to watch?

To a non BJJ person, it was ugly. A lot of un-warranted disrespect towards Schaub, because I did not get he was doing something wrong. I doubt any of the other non-BJJ people got it either, so it just made the crowd look like arseholes.

I have sat in an MMA night where the promoter added about 20 boring grappling matches to the undercard. The change overs were super slow, the fights were uneventful and hard to see and the night dragged on and on. Imagine a fight night where people came to see MMA and had to watch literally 5 hours of grappling before the fights they came for started.

Not a single drunken MMA or Muay Thai fan booed a grappling fight. People were furious, they were complaining endlessly, but they showed every fighter respect.

JJ is without a doubt, the most fun, healthy rewarding thing in the universe. I think you need stuff like booing a guy who jumped on the mats with a world champion to keep it as unpopular as it is.

[Chris Herzog]

The goal of Jiu Jitsu and Submission Grappling is to submit your opponent, Schaub ran from that goal and made absolutely zero progress towards a submission, period. HE disrespected the sport and made a mockery of it, that's what people are pissed.

[Serge Bunimovich]

You find Jeff Glover unwatchable from entertainment point of view??? Really?? He is by far my favorite grappler to watch. His style is hella entertaining and he is always looking for submission. What's not to like??

[Tim Elliott]

Its my point. People watch fights in different ways, and view things in different ways. There are many aspects to martial arts. Some people are interested in technique, some people are interested in strategy, some people just follow the personalities. My missus loves watching Eddie fight because she likes bunnies.

Without offending anyone (unlikely) people with a history of tournament Jiu Jitsu tend to be narrow minded about strategy. Rules limit strategy. Points for specific things limit strategy. Time changes strategy.

I thought this was actually the point of Metamorius, and the stuff Eddie has been doing, and Rickson was talking about. Creating more practical Jiu Jitsu. If Schaub is there to put on a performance, I am not interested. Its just one step away from staged wrestling.

If I had to fight Chris Herzog, my priority for at least 18 of the 20 minutes would be to not let him so much as touch me, and to make him as annoyed and frustrated as I possibly could. Ruin whatever plan he might have had. Learn as much as I possibly could about how he moves, and what he wants me to do.
I am not for a second, suggesting this would work, or be fun to watch. What I am saying, is, can anyone suggest a better strategy? How is doing anything other than surviving and learning, moving towards a submission? But it should be fairly obvious, as it is an immense mis-match, that I treat him with utmost respect. I would show him immense respect, by acknowledging even touching him is suicidal.

Does no one recognise this as respect? What I saw was a real fighter with a brown belt who does not specialise in Jiu Jitsu showing the appropriate amount of respect towards the best in the world. Its not like it is a game at Metamorius, people are "tapping to snap" in some of those fights.

Schaubs there to move towards his own submission, as best he can. He is not supposed to move towards Cyborgs submission. I don't want to see someone do something moronic on purpose.

I never rolled competition Jiu Jitsu. Some BJJ guys who were training in Brazil used our mats, and had a copy of the Twister. When they left we bought Eddies books and DVDs and grappled. We never had a timer, we never knew about how the points system worked, and we always fought full contact. Its more fun to me with no time limit. More strategy. If you suck at finishing your guillotine but you can't turn it down, I'm going to gasp and gurgil and set up your guilotine for you, till you gas. Then you are going to go home and improve your guilotine so I can't use it against you, and next time I try that trick I get my head ripped off.

Different. Fun. One of the coolest aspect of grappling is you can simulate all kinds of interesting scenarios, without anyone getting killed. I guess I find that fascinating, and not everyone does.

[Chris Herzog]

Its my point. People watch fights in different ways, and view things in different ways. There are many aspects to martial arts. Some people are interested in technique, some people are interested in strategy, some people just follow the personalities. My missus loves watching Eddie fight because she likes bunnies.

Without offending anyone (unlikely) people with a history of tournament Jiu Jitsu tend to be narrow minded about strategy. Rules limit strategy. Points for specific things limit strategy. Time changes strategy.

I thought this was actually the point of Metamorius, and the stuff Eddie has been doing, and Rickson was talking about. Creating more practical Jiu Jitsu. If Schaub is there to put on a performance, I am not interested. Its just one step away from staged wrestling.

If I had to fight Chris Herzog, my priority for at least 18 of the 20 minutes would be to not let him so much as touch me, and to make him as annoyed and frustrated as I possibly could. Ruin whatever plan he might have had. Learn as much as I possibly could about how he moves, and what he wants me to do.
I am not for a second, suggesting this would work, or be fun to watch. What I am saying, is, can anyone suggest a better strategy? How is doing anything other than surviving and learning, moving towards a submission? But it should be fairly obvious, as it is an immense mis-match, that I treat him with utmost respect. I would show him immense respect, by acknowledging even touching him is suicidal.

Does no one recognise this as respect? What I saw was a real fighter with a brown belt who does not specialise in Jiu Jitsu showing the appropriate amount of respect towards the best in the world. Its not like it is a game at Metamorius, people are "tapping to snap" in some of those fights.

Schaubs there to move towards his own submission, as best he can. He is not supposed to move towards Cyborgs submission. I don't want to see someone do something moronic on purpose.

I never rolled competition Jiu Jitsu. Some BJJ guys who were training in Brazil used our mats, and had a copy of the Twister. When they left we bought Eddies books and DVDs and grappled. We never had a timer, we never knew about how the points system worked, and we always fought full contact. Its more fun to me with no time limit. More strategy. If you suck at finishing your guillotine but you can't turn it down, I'm going to gasp and gurgil and set up your guilotine for you, till you gas. Then you are going to go home and improve your guilotine so I can't use it against you, and next time I try that trick I get my head ripped off.

Different. Fun. One of the coolest aspect of grappling is you can simulate all kinds of interesting scenarios, without anyone getting killed. I guess I find that fascinating, and not everyone does.

No you wouldn't. I'm not one dimensional, I'd throw you on your head, then submit you.

That being said, you'd be missing the entire spirit of competition by fleeing. It most competitions you would be DQed for avoiding and stalling. Something that Metamoris needs to rectify to avoid future disgraceful "tactics" similar to those displayed by Schaub.

[Ryan Boor]

Haha, Preach Zog!