Question About the Guillotine Chokes Priority in MMA

[Ben Vazquez]

This has been bugging me for a very long time I try to break combat down in a logical way and I am having a hard time figuring out why so many people seem to have the (Guillotine Choke) from guard as a very "High Priority" move doesn't matter if it is an (Arm In) version or a (No Arm) version.

What I mean by "High Priority" is that there are moves IMO that should be used or at least attempted before others because they simply make more sense while others are "Low Priority" and should only be used if everything else has failed or it is simply your only option based on the situation at hand.

I don't understand why I see so many fighters immediately try to pull a (Guillotine Choke) when they are in a SPRAWL position or when they are standing with a hook in and have an arm around the opponents head, Typically where you see a fighter try to pull the (Arm In Guillotine) from.

Logically from the SPRAWL to me it makes more sense to attempt a (Anaconda, Darce, Ninja Choke) and I would argue maybe even an (Inverted Triangle Choke) cause if the opponent pushed forward once you moved your leg into position to feed it under their arm you could possibly shift your weight to the side and switch off to a (Peruvian Neck Tie) attempt cause your leg would be in position to kick it out and place it behind the head.

I don't understand why you would ever want to try to pull off a (Guillotine) in a way that causes you to pull guard why give up position? You could stay standing and try for the (No Arm) version, And the (Arm In) version is less effective and harder to finish so why would you want to give up position to attempt a move that puts you on your back without even trying to attempt a move that would keep you in much better position the (Anaconda, Darce, and Ninja Choke) all would keep you in a top position that keeps you safer until it is locked in fully then you give up a little bit of position trying to finish.

Also when you factor in the ability to strike it makes even less sense to go to your back in attempt to pull a (Arm In) version that will probably fail and leave you tired with your opponent on top of you and you fighting to regain control of their posture again.

Please explain to me if there is something I'm missing cause it seems to me that this over use of the (Guillotine) in this way is either arrogance in your ability to finish the choke by going for it with little regard for the positioning your giving up, Or it is simple ignorance of what can be done before attempting such a risky move before trying other better IMO options that should be a "Higher Priority".

Even if your (Guillotine) is very good it doesn't seem to make sense to me to try it before you try other things first.

Please help me figure this out cause my combat brain gets very frustrated watching fights where fighters repeatedly go for this immediately and fail without ever attempting to try other things first.

-Thanks

[AJ Camacho]

Wrestlers put their heads in my armpit. I don't know why but apparently my armpit is a magnet for wrestler heads.

[Kevin Green]

Some subs from turtle r harder to get due to the gloves. The only guillotine I use now is the marcelo grip....makes the guillotine higher percentage n puts u in a better position if u can't get it. But I hear what u r saying bro...everyone tries to hit the standard guillotine right from the jump....maybe because it looks easy n the first choke most people learn.?? See neck. Grab neck. Squeeze neck.

[Jason Hyatt]

See neck. Grab Neck. Squeeze neck.

I've been making jiu jitsu way too hard...

[Luis Acherbo]

Some subs from turtle r harder to get due to the gloves. The only guillotine I use now is the marcelo grip....makes the guillotine higher percentage n puts u in a better position if u can't get it. But I hear what u r saying bro...everyone tries to hit the standard guillotine right from the jump....maybe because it looks easy n the first choke most people learn.?? See neck. Grab neck. Squeeze neck.

i see alot of ppl talking about the marcelo grip is there like any site i can go to or videos that would explain the grip to me i mean im going to marcelos school in december or this summer but i dont wanna wait that long lol

[Ben Vazquez]

Here is a link to an article on the grip with a video showing some details for you.

[Matt "Gumby" Glach]

I'm thinking it's a combination of the guillotine being a relatively easy submission to "know how to do", so in the heat of the battle, it's an instinct to go for it, plus the fact that most MMA fighters don't have great darces/anacondas/etc, plus the fact that we see MMA fights being won by guillotine ALL THE TIME, I'm sure it's the most common submission after the RNC, plus the fact that it's probably used as an escape route for people who feel like they are getting dominated on their feet or in the clinch, so they see it as a way to potentially end the fight quickly before they get their ass kicked.

[Ben Vazquez]

Here is a link to an article on the grip with a video showing some details for you.

http://bit.ly/eAoEOe

(Delete that post please couldn't edit it to add the link)

[Griffin Lambert]

I've seen Marcelo finish quite a few people by Guillotine off the sprawl. You should be happy that in any specific position we would all attempt different techniques. Different bodies and minds make for very unique styles.

[Ben Vazquez]

No disrespect but my post is regarding the priority of the standard (Arm In) & (No Arm) versions of the (Guillotine) in MMA specifically not the Marcelo version if that is what you are referring to, And as Kevin above said that version leaves you in a better position if you fail the attempt then these standard ones and I agree with that.

Plus Marcelo is widely considered the best No-Gi grappler alive so comparing his success with anything to others is a bit of a stretch, And he is specifically a Jiu-Jitsu grappler not an MMA fighter so he doesn't really belong in this topic.

That being said I'm all for innovation and variation I would love to see more attempts at (Pentagram Chokes) over (RNC) 's but logically that is not a good move to attempt because you run a high risk of failing and giving up position as opposed to taking the safer (RNC) while you have the opponents back so I can fully understand why people wouldn't attempt it just for style points in a fight which brings me back to my question of giving up position when you have better options that carry less risk.