Royce Gracie should have at least one technique named after him

[stlnl]

maybe i shouldn't say what i said ,cause i do got to respect them , i guess im just mad at celebrity-ism

Understandable, but you should always keep in mind, with no gracies (them being famous that is), and no UFC (since it was a Rorian Gracie spawned idea) do you think you would have ever trained any Ground grappling at all to the extent most folks here do?

[frank-theman-james]

Understandable, but you should always keep in mind, with no gracies (them being famous that is), and no UFC (since it was a Rorian Gracie spawned idea) do you think you would have ever trained any Ground grappling at all to the extent most folks here do?

no, I probably never would have trained ground fighting, but I also think that there is a smug demeanor among the gracies when they talk about how their style is the best defense martial art in the world when clearly the rest of the mma world is starting to punch holes through that theory. As someone else said in this thread, what you learn today is what you will learn ten years from now. evolution is the key to martial arts and always will be. I am glad that the gracies showed the world their beloved art, but unless they are open to the evolution of it, it too will fade into the same fate as other traditional non-comforming arts.

[James III]

However, I feel they have made the same mistake karate schools have made in "closing" their curriculum. Like a karate school, they have a grand master that has already figured everything out and the syllabus is written in stone with nothing new to be added to it. If you train there today, or train there in 10 years, the instruction will be exactly the same. (That's the feeling I get, at least).

I think its better when the art keeps evolving. When I first started training BJJ, the big move was the arm bar. Now, everyone's favorite move is the North/South choke.

Agree 100% that the art needs to keep evolving however I seem to recall Rener saying in an Interview earlier this year that they have apparently developed some new techniques which they have not revealed yet.

[stlnl]

no, I probably never would have trained ground fighting, but I also think that there is a smug demeanor among the gracies when they talk about how their style is the best defense martial art in the world when clearly the rest of the mma world is starting to punch holes through that theory. As someone else said in this thread, what you learn today is what you will learn ten years from now. evolution is the key to martial arts and always will be. I am glad that the gracies showed the world their beloved art, but unless they are open to the evolution of it, it too will fade into the same fate as other traditional non-comforming arts.

The rest of the MMA world, as a general rule either trains BJJ or a branch (TPJJ) to compete in MMA. So how exactly are there holes punched in what they say, if pretty much everyone has to train their stuff to be competive in MMA?

[Jason Eisner]

I think Eisner says it best in the intro to MTS: "...when I saw a SKINNY Brazilian choke out a pharmaceutical-grade superhero in 57 seconds." Royce is a beast and yeah, it'd be nice to name something after him.

Thanks for noticing Jason!

Watching Royce choke out Ken Shamrock was a defining moment in my life.

Royce is my Bruce Lee. One of my heroes. When I was fifteen I begged my mom to move us to Torrance California so I could train Gracie Jiu Jitsu. She looked at me like "What the fuck are you talking about?" LOL.

[DENNY PROKOPOS]

There is the Royce double. Where he crawl's on his knee's and does an outside trip. I used that one a lot when I wrestled in high school and in Jiu Jitsu tournament's. Btw that was an awesome breakdown.

[frank-theman-james]

The rest of the MMA world, as a general rule either trains BJJ or a branch (TPJJ) to compete in MMA. So how exactly are there holes punched in what they say, if pretty much everyone has to train their stuff to be competive in MMA?

yes your right but in itself, gracie jiujitsu is not getting the job done anymore as more people train in it and learn how to defend it. I was stating that they need to evolve and be open to change to keep up with the rest of the ma world. If you did nothing but gracie jiujitsu today and entered an mma event like royce did back in the early ufc days, you would get your ass handed to you. Its already been proven that in his loss to matt hughes. Not only that, how many gracies are competing currently in the ufc? 0, notta, none, because they refuse to accept what has been proven and or change to meet todays requirements for a successful fighting strategy. I'm not knocking the Gracies for what they know, at their game they are very few who can be considered as good, but in the rest of the martial arts world, they are falling behind.

[stlnl]

yes your right but in itself, gracie jiujitsu is not getting the job done anymore as more people train in it and learn how to defend it. I was stating that they need to evolve and be open to change to keep up with the rest of the ma world. If you did nothing but gracie jiujitsu today and entered an mma event like royce did back in the early ufc days, you would get your ass handed to you. Its already been proven that in his loss to matt hughes. Not only that, how many gracies are competing currently in the ufc? 0, notta, none, because they refuse to accept what has been proven and or change to meet todays requirements for a successful fighting strategy. I'm not knocking the Gracies for what they know, at their game they are very few who can be considered as good, but in the rest of the martial arts world, they are falling behind.

No, you could clean up just fine at the smaller or local level MMA events with just BJJ. At the elite level, elite level athletes are crosstraining and learning to fight. The fact elite level athletes and MMA at the elite level has alot more to do with the individual than what or where he trains (because everyone is basically learning very similar stuff) sort of nullifies the whole gracies cant compete angle. Most of them are 40 or older now. Hell who at the UFC level is 40? Also its not that they fell behind, Renzo has always crosstrained. Crosstraining however does not, in any way, guarantee you a skill set. Royce losing to hughes proved to me an elite level athlete who has BB level ground game will beat the crap out of an average athlete with a BB ground game, you see something in that I missed?

[Mike Nall]

The Royce is where they tap and you don't let go haha.

[frank-theman-james]

No, you could clean up just fine at the smaller or local level MMA events with just BJJ. At the elite level, elite level athletes are crosstraining and learning to fight. The fact elite level athletes and MMA at the elite level has alot more to do with the individual than what or where he trains (because everyone is basically learning very similar stuff) sort of nullifies the whole gracies cant compete angle. Most of them are 40 or older now. Hell who at the UFC level is 40? Also its not that they fell behind, Renzo has always crosstrained. Crosstraining however does not, in any way, guarantee you a skill set. Royce losing to hughes proved to me an elite level athlete who has BB level ground game will beat the crap out of an average athlete with a BB ground game, you see something in that I missed?

Once again you missed my point and when you get done reading this go ahead and sign off and delete your account here, because this very website and system of jiujitsu was developed by someone when had the wisdom to see that the fight game is and always will be changing. In my and a couple of others comments were addressing that the Gracie family resist change by stating that this is their art that their father created and they have perfected it, but along comes Eddie bravo, and here we all are working very hard to learn his style, which is frowned upon by the Gracie family and even bad mouthed by some of them. I can't tell you how many times I've heard Gracie instructors talk shit bout 10th planet. I dont argue anymore, I simply choose to keep learning all I can from someone who has an open approach to teaching and maybe that's because of my years of kenpo training where we were taught to be open minded of what other arts offered. But I can tell you this while you defend the Gracie's and all their greatness, they would not do likewise in you and your choice to train 10th planet.

I choose this!