Self defense laws

[Isaiah Mendoza]

seeing as someone is doing time for self defense in the U.K., I think it would be beneficial to us all to know exactly how these laws work in the states. Considering the fact our prisons are a bit more... hellish, I'd hate to be in the same situation. Any lawyers on here who know how this stuff works?

I live in arizona. Anybody else who reads this feel free to post the state you live in, or provide info on the subject.

[Cody Kietzman]

Ive brought this up before and gotten little response. NE is whats called a right to flee state. You actually don't have the right to use deadly force like chokes or maim people like armbars, unless you cannot flee. If you cannot flee then you can use deadly force on someone who is actively trying to kill you, you can also use deadly force against an active raper (yes raper), a kidnapper (with stipulations based guardian status and whatnot), and people doing great bodily harm to yourself and or a third party. You define who counts as third party meaning you have no obligation to help but you can if you want.

So you cant just go around slapping on triangles in barfights because that my friends is attempted murder. You may think that every fight is life or death but i dont think the law sees it that way. This based on the research i have done in Nebraska state law.

[Isaiah Mendoza]

Ive brought this up before and gotten little response. NE is whats called a right to flee state. You actually don't have the right to use deadly force like chokes or maim people like armbars, unless you cannot flee. If you cannot flee then you can use deadly force on someone who is actively trying to kill you, you can also use deadly force against an active raper (yes raper), a kidnapper (with stipulations based guardian status and whatnot), and people doing great bodily harm to yourself and or a third party. You define who counts as third party meaning you have no obligation to help but you can if you want.

So you cant just go around slapping on triangles in barfights because that my friends is attempted murder. You may think that every fight is life or death but i dont think the law sees it that way. This based on the research i have done in Nebraska state law.

got anything on AZ?

[Cody Kietzman]

Ill see what i can do at work tomorrow.

[Cody Kietzman]

I found this with a quick google. http://www.sw-schutz.com/ars/2.html

Looks like you don't have a duty to flee and you can also stop robberies and arsons. Legit!

That said i don't know how current or accurate it is. I usually like to base my research off of more credible sources like the states website. (one of the few times i trust what the govt says)

[John Flores]

So basically we can't go around trying to break arms, or slapping on chokes?...So we have to just break their face instead?...Like use Jiu Jitsu to gain a dominant position, and just bash away?...That doesn't send a good message man..I want to use it so I don't have to beat a guy up, but if I HAVE to in order to stay away from doing time, than that sucks..

[Cody Kietzman]

So basically we can't go around trying to break arms, or slapping on chokes?...So we have to just break their face instead?...Like use Jiu Jitsu to gain a dominant position, and just bash away?...That doesn't send a good message man..I want to use it so I don't have to beat a guy up, but if I HAVE to in order to stay away from doing time, than that sucks..

What i would do is establish dominant position and ummm not break their face....because if you break his face thats still assault. You have to be calm and controlled. If your willing to face assault charges though wail away from mount, but if you mess him up bad enough then you could be facing intent to do great bodily harm. Then depending on the state he may be able to use deadly force on you.

It's ultimately your responsibility to not fuck the guy up no matter how bad he pissed u off or if he started it. One you mount a guy you know his threat level severely diminishes. Once that happens your right to force also diminishes or even goes away. In short control him break his spirit let him go, or be willing to face consequences. If your jits skills are good enough you usually have the power to control a fight (if its on the ground) so like uncle Ben said "with great power comes great responsibility."

It's a sad world we live in when two dudes can slug it out in a bar parking lot with going to jail....<---100 percent serious.

[Julius Black]

Cant speak for the US, but from a UK standpoint (and this makes the whole situation suck even more because it didnt seem to work for the guy who's going to be doing time soon) It's all about the point of "reasonable belief" in court.

For example:

Your belief that you (or a family member, vulnerable person etc) are in danger of "serious bodily harm or threat to your life" from an assailant. You have to be able to show that you had reasonable, realistic, and applicable grounds for this belief. Such as:

1 You belief the guy had been drinking, you had "reasonable, realistic, and applicable" reason to believe this because he stank of alcohol, was slurring his speech, was waking unsteadily etc.

2 You also believe that you/family member, other person was in significant risk of harm. You had "reasonable, realistic, and applicable" reason to believe this because the person was making verbal and physical threats etc, helps if people witness this.

3 You believe person was under the influence of drugs, see reasons for under the influence of alcohol.

4 You believe person had a weapon, this is an interesting one as in test-cases its been seen that the assailant "technically" does not HAVE to have a weapon for you to take "appropriate" action, its all about what you BELIEVE but you also need reasons to support that beliefe, even if you are wrong, such as the assailant put a hand in his pocket/behind his back, and kept it there.

5 Assailant's physical size/percieved ability (I've used this myself after being arrested and interviewd for breaking someone's jaw while defending myself as I'm really short. 5"5 ish).. The assailant is physically much larger than the person defending themselves, has a reputation around the area for being particularly aggressive, being a boxer, doorman, etc..

Basically, in your defense if you can testify to all or a combination of the above, you SHOULD be ok and found not guilty of commiting assault (I say "should" because due to a recent thread on here it shows that the above doesnt always work)

Unfortunately, knowledge of how the system works before you're unfortunately put in a position whereby you have to use it, can often be the difference between you being found "guilty" or "not guilty" of assault or something similar. But then I could easily say that having this knowledge should be your brief's responsibility (solicitor, lawyer etc). Unfortunately as seems to be the case of most things, some legal professional's are better than others. Again unfortunately it's often the fact that the more expensive a brief, (and the more inaccessable to most people) the better and more effective he/she actually is.

At the end of the day though as recent events have shown, the above is all pretty much just words. Which is bollocks when it doesnt work for you.

[Kurzy]

If you are put into danger, fight for your life. Period.

[Cody Kietzman]

If you are put into danger, fight for your life. Period.

How much danger? Is there a Weapon? Are you being jumped? Are you 5 inches and 35 lbs heavier (I'm sorry 13 cm and 15.5 kilo) ? Can you flee (if you have to)? There are a million factors that determine. If you get into a fist fight in a bar parking lot over the skank that Kendall Madden had the night before and you bounce his head off the pavement you will prolly be facing charges. YOU may feel justified but the LAW may see it way differently.