Can Opener... kosher or no?

[Brent Smith]

I use it sometimes. It's no more of a shady move than the twister, in my opinion. It's a neck crank. We play and encourage a rule set that says every submission should be allowed; that includes neck cranks.

That having been said, if you aren't very aware and sensitive to the dangers it's incredibly easy to counter.

Exactly my views on it.

I havent been to a tournament where its illegal. The rule is as soon as they open their feet you have to let it go.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

This.

Which is why you need to start dealing with these types of tactics at the gym level. Making techniques illegal in the gym such as the can openers, leg locks, twisters, etc. will ulitmately stunt the growth of the sport and the individual students development. However these must be practiced with safe trustworthy training partners and under proper guidance and supervision.

As coaches me must also exploit these weeknesses in teams when preparing our teams for competition.

WISDOM. Im always lookin for the Zog posts.

[BigRed]

I don't think that mentality is great for training long term. At higher levels your not really going to be tapping good guys or breaking their guard with it, just having them wake up with sore necks for the next few days. My favorite counter is to just make a fist and grind/push on their face and or neck. I reserve that douche move just for the can opener Or just turn it into an arm bar. I think your time would be better spent learning some standing guard breaks and passes.

With that being said everyone should know how to deal with it and I don't think it should be straight up banned. I just think your better off trying to focus on a guard break that does not require that much strength and does not leave your arms at risk.

[Isaac Atley]

I don't think that mentality is great for training long term. At higher levels your not really going to be tapping good guys or breaking their guard with it, just having them wake up with sore necks for the next few days. My favorite counter is to just make a fist and grind/push on their face and or neck. I reserve that douche move just for the can opener Or just turn it into an arm bar. I think your time would be better spent learning some standing guard breaks and passes.

With that being said everyone should know how to deal with it and I don't think it should be straight up banned. I just think your better off trying to focus on a guard break that does not require that much strength and does not leave your arms at risk.

i reckon thats great advice, just wondering, when you make the fist, do you half thai clinch with the other arm? im just having trouble picturing it. i think ill just stick to an armbar.

[Chris Odell (Datsusara)]

agreed Red. i need to drill the fist and the simple armbar from there just so it's in my head next time some dick tries it. i must admit the fist is a little more appealing as payback

[BigRed]

i reckon thats great advice, just wondering, when you make the fist, do you half thai clinch with the other arm? im just having trouble picturing it. i think ill just stick to an armbar.

no you dont want to pull the guy in closer with a thai clinch. the closer He is to you the more pressure you are going to feel from the can opener. Literally make a fist with both hands and make grind the shit out his face/neck while pushing away with both hands. They allways let go this is also the problem with these kind of low percentage submission high percentage pain and chronic injury they open the door for the mentality of trying to hurt your parter not train safe. I should make a video of the counter. No one can openers me anymore .

[Jason Morgan]

Damn I love this forum. I'm trying out new gyms in my new town (Bellingham, WA) and this big guy can opened the shit outta me today to get out of my high guard and now I am stiff and sore as hell. As I'm texting my old coach John Salami for advice he's telling me the same thing you are Big Red. Thanks and I'll be ready to counter next time

[bobby rivers]

Kosher. 100%.

First off, don't let somebody thai clench your head like that. Hand fight and swim for overlooks.

If he does get it, like others have said, open your friggin guard asap. People keeping their guard closed is where injuries come from. Open your guard and scoot your but back and shuck it. The fist in the throat is money as well as Slicks option.

When you get compromised, retreat on your terms. One step back, as apossed to them advancing an theirs and putting you four back or sub'd.