Suggestion on a Points Change

[rickdawson]

As much as most of us love the Submission Only Format.... Points formats aren't going anywhere and for tournaments like NOGI world's (with over 2,000 competitors), 15 minute matches just aren't pracitcal...

To make the matches more exciting, I think that the following changes should be added:

If you get a submission LOCKED IN (Example, you have a guy in the guillotine, he starts to turn purple) but he barely breaks out... I think you should get 2 points rather then an advantage.

Thoughts?

[Phill Schwartz]

This is what NAGA does. The NW has had several tournaments recently that are SUB only, Round Robin which to me is the best format. Yes it takes time, but broken into groups correctly, everyone gets lots of matches. Single elimination points tournaments are the death of interesting BJJ.

[Brent Smith]

As much as most of us love the Submission Only Format.... Points formats aren't going anywhere and for tournaments like NOGI world's (with over 2,000 competitors), 15 minute matches just aren't pracitcal...

To make the matches more exciting, I think that the following changes should be added:

If you get a submission LOCKED IN (Example, you have a guy in the guillotine, he starts to turn purple) but he barely breaks out... I think you should get 2 points rather then an advantage.

Thoughts?

Would the same go for leg locks like toe holds? Pretty easy to grab ahold of one of those make it seem like youre going for it, let go then repeat...Not saying it isnt a legit submission but you could really rack up some points. Or would the guidelines state it needs to be close to breaking or the opponent is obviously fighting hard to defend?

[Phill Schwartz]

For reference from NAGA

Submission Points (1 or 2 Points):

2 points are awarded for a full and strong Submission Attempt. A
Submission is recognized as full and strong when one or more of the
following occurs:
The finish in question is not a low percentage submission (wrist lock, body
scissor, etc.);
the defender is 'In Danger' - the finish has the potential to make the
opponent tap out or be in danger of being injured by submission.

1 Point is awarded for a Submission Attempt that is significant, but does
not meet the above criteria.

In a situation that is less than full and strong, Referees are directed to
award 1 Point as soon as they see it, in order to encourage an aggressive
style of grappling. If the submission in question later proves to be full and
strong, an additional 1 Point can be awarded (2 Points total).

Observation 3.1: Submissions must be applied in order to get a tap out or
verbal submission, and not in order to injure the opponent.

Observation 3.2: Chaining full and strong Submission attempts will result in
points being awarded for each different submission. For example, if a
competitor applies a triangle choke in a full and strong manner, and then
goes for an arm bar that is full and strong, a further 1 or 2 Points can be
awarded for each additional submission attempt.

Observation 3.3: Example: An arm bar attempt in which the other
competitor is actively defending will result in a 1 Point submission attempt.
The same attempt that breaks the grips of the defending competitor
(putting them in danger of submission) will result in an additional 1 Point
(2 Points total).

Observation 3.4: Simply locking into a submission position is not enough to
receive a 1 Point submission attempt. Example 1: Locking the opponent in
a Kimura, making zero attempts to actively pull the grips to submit the
opponent will not be awarded points. Example 2: Closed Guard to cross
locking the legs for a triangle choke, only to return back to a Closed Guard
will not result in points. The 1 Point submission attempt will only be
awarded in this example if the legs are fully put in a figure four triangle
choke attempt. The full 2 Point submission attempt will be assessed if the
opponent is in danger of a physical or verbal tap out.

[rickdawson]

For reference from NAGA

Submission Points (1 or 2 Points):

2 points are awarded for a full and strong Submission Attempt. A
Submission is recognized as full and strong when one or more of the
following occurs:
The finish in question is not a low percentage submission (wrist lock, body
scissor, etc.);
the defender is 'In Danger' - the finish has the potential to make the
opponent tap out or be in danger of being injured by submission.

1 Point is awarded for a Submission Attempt that is significant, but does
not meet the above criteria.

In a situation that is less than full and strong, Referees are directed to
award 1 Point as soon as they see it, in order to encourage an aggressive
style of grappling. If the submission in question later proves to be full and
strong, an additional 1 Point can be awarded (2 Points total).

Observation 3.1: Submissions must be applied in order to get a tap out or
verbal submission, and not in order to injure the opponent.

Observation 3.2: Chaining full and strong Submission attempts will result in
points being awarded for each different submission. For example, if a
competitor applies a triangle choke in a full and strong manner, and then
goes for an arm bar that is full and strong, a further 1 or 2 Points can be
awarded for each additional submission attempt.

Observation 3.3: Example: An arm bar attempt in which the other
competitor is actively defending will result in a 1 Point submission attempt.
The same attempt that breaks the grips of the defending competitor
(putting them in danger of submission) will result in an additional 1 Point
(2 Points total).

Observation 3.4: Simply locking into a submission position is not enough to
receive a 1 Point submission attempt. Example 1: Locking the opponent in
a Kimura, making zero attempts to actively pull the grips to submit the
opponent will not be awarded points. Example 2: Closed Guard to cross
locking the legs for a triangle choke, only to return back to a Closed Guard
will not result in points. The 1 Point submission attempt will only be
awarded in this example if the legs are fully put in a figure four triangle
choke attempt. The full 2 Point submission attempt will be assessed if the
opponent is in danger of a physical or verbal tap out.

Well then I guess said system exists

[Eddie Bravo]

If a sweep is 2 points and a pass is 3 points and mount is 4 points then a fully cinched triangle, darce, arm triangle, rnc or straightened arm bar or knee bar should be 7 points

[Nick Lerch]

http://imgur.com/kEK5frn

[Andrew Alexander]

If a sweep is 2 points and a pass is 3 points and mount is 4 points then a fully cinched triangle, darce, arm triangle, rnc or straightened arm bar or knee bar should be 7 points

I like that, arm and the knee def. need to be straightened before awarding points tho,

[Isaac Atley]

i think its the same in mma judging but i think there needs to be a larger variety of numbers. in mma judging i think a 7 and 8 round should be given way more often and a 9 round should be rarer, in bjj i think that things should be given more points, like eddie said, but the goal should be way higher too. or even better, there not be a goal to reach. (i dunno how you all do it in the states but here, if a person has a ten point advantage then they automatically win by decision.) make it like a fifty point goal or something and give points like eddie said

[Brian Debes]

If a sweep is 2 points and a pass is 3 points and mount is 4 points then a fully cinched triangle, darce, arm triangle, rnc or straightened arm bar or knee bar should be 7 points

This is similar to how Eddie ran the in house tournament on the cruise. That said, out of any widespread point tournament, I like NAGA the best. One reason is sub's could be 1 or two, takedowns could be 1 or 2 and everything else (sweep, side control, mount and the back) are two. This keeps the sub attempts relevant by keeping positions from being way more valuable.

Also, Side-ride counts as side control and Russian cowboy counts as mount. That's nice that they aren't forcing you into the standard mold as much.

I also like that they award points for the side control position itself, not the guard pass. The IBJJF system rewards sweeps that bring you to a passing position and punishes valuable sweeps that bring you straight to side control as there would be no additional points.

I also think its a HUGE deal that ALL SUBS are legal at ALL experience levels at NAGA. I credit this system with developing my leg locks to the point they are now.