My Japanese necktie be so cranky

[Mike Nall]

Same, I hate crank taps that's why I'm trying to get it sorted. Has to be the vice grip.

Couple things. 1st I hate crank taps too, at least in class. I try to be as nice to my friends and training partners as possible so I try to adjust head-and-arms and guillotines as much as possible to try to make them clean blood chokes. That said in a competition it really doesn't matter.

But about cleaning up your chokes, I think the J Necktie is definitely the hardest of all the head and arms to make a clean choke. With arm triangles and darces and anacondas you can really adjust your arm and body placement to get angles that won't crank them as much. With the J Necktie you're just crushing them with the vice grip and your body.

That's just the nature of the position. Like Eddie said if you like the necktie and the twister you just gotta embrace the crank. In the rules it's technically an arm triangle like the darce, anaconda, regular arm triangle, ezekiel. Those are chokes that also can crank. The J Necktie is more of a crank that also chokes.

[Kurzy]

You know Tim, I just the JNT in my game a lot. I think the crankiness depends on the persons build. If I use it on guys my size, it is a crank, but if I use it on guys that are big and meaty, it is a blood choke that WILL (and does) put a big guy to sleep if he doesn't tap.
I can't control their body type, so I just know that when I put on the JNT I have to tie up those legs and keep it all tight to get the tap. Either crank tap or choke tap is fine with me because I don't get jerky anyways, I always try to apply pressure slowly with control once it's locked in.

[Chris Herzog]

[Chad Clark]

In the rules it's technically an arm triangle like the darce, anaconda, regular arm triangle, ezekiel. Those are chokes that also can crank. The J Necktie is more of a crank that also chokes.

What are you talking about, that wasn't no neck crank. It was a mounted arm-in guillotine.

[Tim Bruhn]

Thanks for the vid repost, was the one I remembered. Such a slick sweep to sleep.

As Kurzy said, think I just have to get over myself and as long as I'm not getting jerky and staying slow and methodical with it in training it should be cool.

[Jee Kim]

We went through a series of JNT variations in Einstein's class awhile ago and a little thing that I haven't seen mentioned here yet is pulling the arm that is on the mat up/rotating your upper body outwards. If there is any displacement of your vice grip around their neck when you fall to your side, this slight adjustment may fix it and thus drive your arm into their throat deeper when you hip in.

I'm not sure if my explanation is clear at all, but I've found that that trick, along with the hip-thrusting and leg-hooking, will seal the deal.

[Mike Nall]

What are you talking about, that wasn't no neck crank. It was a mounted arm-in guillotine.

What? I'm confused. I wasn't talking about a video or anything like that. I was just saying that neck cranks are allowed at the adult level in every grappling comp/ruleset as long as the crank happens as a result of a choke. Like arm triangles (side choke, darce, JNT, anaconda, etc.) I haven't watched any videos in this thread so i wasn't talking about any mounted guillotines or anything like that.

[Chad Clark]

Sorry my comment should've read: If in a tournament or something and someone cries neck crank trying to get you DQ'd, you could say it was a mounted arm-in guillotine. Personally, I think a tap is a tap, and while neck cranks may be dangerous, and much like other taboo submissions *coughcoughleglockscoughheelhooks* both people need to know to a)not be a douche and dont crank the sub and b) not be an idiot and tap early.

[Kurzy]

You nailed it Chad.

[einstein]

see my video post on the forum. you are welcome