"practice curriculum and dont do that fancy RG stuff"

[Craig Murray]

Sunday's a great day at Lovato's. Very small classes and then open mat time. I got to live roll for the first time today, with a bluebelt who outweighed me by about 25 lb.

He was really great with me. He moved nice and slow for me, walking through the curriculum against me, allowing me ample time to try to stop him. It didnt work and I eventually left my arms sticking out and he caught one. Armbar tap.

Then we started with him in my guard. The guy is much heavier and stronger than me, but he sort-of allowed me to break him down. I went into mission control, which he kind of just sat patiently in, not really doing much to stop me. I think he was just curious what I was going to do with it. I Zombie'd him (this took some struggle), double-bagged, cleared his neck, and kung fu'ed him.

At this point I thought I was in good shape, being set up for the gogo and all that. But he was keeping his head turned and his chin tucked so I couldn't get my shin into his neck, it was more across his chin. At that point I started thinking, and he started to actually defend (I'm pretty sure he just let me have everything up to that point, not sure).

He passed my weak side leg. Not sure if he fully passed or just half past. Either way it allowed him to really stack me and smash my gogo leg right into my own face, stretching out my hip, and causing me to tap.

I'm pretty sure about the 3 or 4 biggest mistakes I was making. But no big deal. I'm 3 months into Jiu Jitsu and this guy is a bluebelt who outweighs me by at least 25 lb.

But after class in the locker room he tells me I should not mess with rubber guard because "it's hard on the knees". Instead I should stick to the curriculum until I'm more advanced before I mess with fancy stuff like rubber guard.

I know what he's saying. Clearly I need to work on my fundamentals. And I didnt argue with the guy just thanked him... but...

So far I have learned (in class) exactly ONE attack from a closed guard, the armbar. No open guard stuff at all, no sweeps, nothing but that one closed guard armbar. It's hard to perform an armbar from closed guard and I'm pretty damn sure a bluebelt with 25 lb on me is going to not only escape my armbar attempt, but pass my guard as well.

I have a bunch of things I'm familiar with from RG, so I felt that was my best bet. Clearly this guy didn't agree. But in the time I was rolling with the guy, the brief RG work was the only time I was doing anything at all other than trying to stop him from advancing on me.

He also told me how easy it is to waste training time with exotic stuff.

Personally I felt like I learned a tremendous amount from that roll, and a lot of it was about what can go wrong in RG. I guess I have to leave it at a difference of opinion.

Do you guys have any thoughts on this? I should shelve RG work while I learn how to keep my arms from getting broken and how to stop people passing me? The only time I get into RG is when we're doing open mat, and I'm squarely focused on learning what they teach in class, in class. But if I have a guy in my closed guard, I WANT to play RG against him. I have the flexibility, and maybe I suck at it right now but I can tell you for sure I don't suck any worse at RG than I do at any of the standard curriculum stuff.

[Elisha J Baker]

Getting all the way to kung fu is pretty good. Do what you want.

Personally, I think trying to force beginners not to do what they think is *cool* makes no sense. Maybe your partners know how to make you a better fighter faster, or maybe they don't. Either way, taking the fastest road to efficiency doesn't have to be your goal. I like to train with people who see jujutsu as their own personal journey. Isn't really up to anyone to tell guys like that what they should or shouldn't be doing, technically. Ultimately you'll keep coming back if and only if you yourself actually like what you're doing.

That said, if you want more wins sooner, my advice would be to absorb what your teachers are giving you first and then throw in your own stuff whenever you have the time.

$0.02

[ErikLavigne]

My first 3-4 years of JJ was nothing but 10p stuff. I don't have basic JJ fundamentals, half guard is my fundamental, RG is my fundamental. Exotic to me is branching off basic RG into crack head, pumps, sorcerers... Do what keeps it fun for you without disrespecting your coach.

[EddieHibbard]

In my infinite white belt wisdom, I have to say, the basics are important. I spent most of my time in rolls on my back for the first year and now that I am working my top game I notice I am missing opportunities on "basic" stuff like arm bars and arm triangles because I was more interested in leg stuff. Don't get me wrong, I have had a lot of fun, but now that I work top game, it's frustrating because I feel like I have taken a step back. Moral of the story, you gotta learn the basics eventually or you won't have a well rounded game. I usually reserve 1 roll per session to do the stuff I like and am more familiar with but the rest of the rolls I spend making up for some of the things I neglected over that year.

[HerbChao]

HEy man just read ur post, got back from jitsu myself today and am doing laundry. My experience was that I was playing with the "fancy" stuff first too, but I was still ingraining the basics as well. The only thing that kept me remotely in rolls my first couple years was the "exotic" moves like lockdown, old school, and recovering guard off lockdown. It was only my 3rd year myself that I finally began hitting and understanding armbars, leg triangles, etc. I def see that he wants to help u, and u def showed respect and humbleness by listening first (I find honestly even if i think someone is dead off for what my goals off, because of my traditional martial arts background and respect for someone who's earned their way through the ranks I still will at least listen and walk away to process before I formulate my own conclusion).

Do you have other times or people u can train with to practice the system? That's one thing that will def help u avoid/minimize convos like this in the future (if that's something u want to avoid).

[Craig Murray]

The more I consider this the more I think the guy was wrong. He wasn't exactly smiling and being all friendly when he was telling me to stop practicing RG. He was much more stern and authoritarian in his delivery. Plus the comment about it being hard on your knees tells me he's not fully informed about the system. Maybe for guys without the flexibility who are yanking their ankles to achieve the positions... For me, my legs easily come up into mission control, double bag, crackhead. I just flip them up. And if the angles get too weird and the guy is spazzy, let go... right?

I have a lot more knee pressure messing with triangles than I do with RG.

Now this guy has me wanting to just spend 3 hours on a mat with him, practicing RG with him in it... I bet if he gave me enough time, and was being easy on me the way he was today, I'd get a tap or two out of him.

I need to make friends with the guy and convince him to help me with my RG.

[Craig Murray]

I was playing with the "fancy" stuff first too, but I was still ingraining the basics as well.

Yeah it seems that way for me too. The only time I'm going to be able to play RG right now is from very specific circumstances, and it's the only time where I have a plan and know what I want to do, mostly.

The rest of the time Jiu Jitsu is just a chaos of knees and feet and grips and pressure to me... I have barley begun to learn the alphabet, most of the sentences are gibberish and I'm just trying to go in instinct and some basic rules I learned (feet are 1st line, knees are 2nd line, posture and position are third line of defense... from there I'm trying to stop the dude, or slow him down, from mounting me)

In fundamental class today, before this open mat, the coach was going over some competition questions. Usually not covered in fundamentals but several people are competing for the first time in a couple weeks.

One thing he said was that it's very important to have a plan of attack. Some things you are looking to do, that you understand, and you try to go to that. This has to be doubly true for a whitebelt.

Well I have a plan of attack if I have a guy in my full guard... I have many reasons to believe it's a valid plan.

I suspect my RG looks pretty damn good for a 42 year old, out of shape dude, who's been practicing JJ for 7 weeks in a school that doesn't teach it.

[Craig Murray]

In the end the proof will be in the pudding. When I make it to blue belt, will the other whitebelts all be avoiding my RG? We'll see

[Cora Sek]

Your story is all to familiar with me bro. We are also a lone wolf when it come to RG. We found RG a little over 2 years ago and been playing with it. From the get go, EVERYONE tell us not to mess with it. But down deep in my heart, I know this is the real deal. This is the thing that will set my daughter a part from everyone else. Playing RG takes a lot of faith, more than you will ever know if you are not from a 10thplanet gym. You will be frown upon. You will almost be like an outcast. That is why this forum is so valuable. So for a little over 2 years, we been drilling and playing with the RG. From the very start, it work right away. Just working the RG, it opens up the understanding of a lot of other close guard attacks. To this day, the only attacks from close guard that traditional gym are teaching the kids are pop triangles and arm bar or sweep. That is it. But those kind of attacks are hit and miss, more miss than hit. Sure it work on white belt, but try doing that to orange belt kids, they won't give you a chance. Sure when using RG seems to be a lot more effort involve as compare to a crazy wild arm bar. But once you set up the position right, the submission is almost a sure thing. What seems to be fancy for those that don't play RG, its really is our fundamental. If you play anything long enough and have enough faith in it, it will become fundamental for you. Remember this, MOST people trains traditional jiu jitsu, but if you play what most don't, don't you have an advantage on them??? It just make sense to me. The more you play RG, the more fundamentally sound you will become. Have Faith...

[Craig Murray]

Have Faith...

Thanks for this response. Everyone who responded really, thanks. It's much easier to be an outcast if you know other outcasts

Now that I'm 12 hours removed from this situation, I'm kind of enjoying it. What else would someone WANT when following Eddie Bravo? He's the outcast, the freakshow, in Jiu Jitsu.

So I'm getting resistance playing the game of the guy who's the grandmaster of resistance from the jiu jitsu community. Seems appropriate

It makes me a little proud to be following in the giant footprints of the freaks before me.

(Once I start tapping guys with RG I'm going to throw a 10p rashguard under my gi