Twister roll and truck variation

[Chris Herzog]

Sometimes less experienced grapplers can see things that those with experience may not.

I like the leg lace variation and would not have discovered that myself, irrespective of the loose basics. Guys we gotta remember that there are still many, many places out there that have not had the finer points of the system drilled into them yet. For instance, me and mick have been training with future 10th Planet Budapest and they are really going places despite not having the kind of support that exists in the more established 10P zones.

It reminds me of when Eddie was shown a new way of getting to double bagger on an MTS by a guy doing his first seminar. The dude looked outside the box and came up with a nice little detail. Did Eddie question his guard and all the finer points that make a world champions guard great? No. Because regardless of belt we can all learn from one another. Now we all understand the importance of what Zog is saying and there are rules to stop shitty techniques being shared but once in a while something different comes from somewhere we didn't expect.

...and most of the time an experienced grappler will see things that those with less experience do not. Saving time of those that lack the ability to see through the smokey haze. For every one passable technique that Eddie has been shown by a relative noobie there were a thousand that were a complete waste of time, hence having the vetting process for the system. There is only so much time to filter through all the garbage just to find a tiny little hint of a gem.

The point thats being missed is that no one ever said "don't show new techniques", just get out there and prove they work on the competition mat, then show us. What works in a friendly roll against those of even lesser skill without the stress and pressure of competition isn't even remotely comparable. Those that have never competed, will never understand the difference.

[Matt Thomas]

...and most of the time an experienced grappler will see things that those with less experience do not. Saving time of those that lack the ability to see through the smokey haze. For every one passable technique that Eddie has been shown by a relative noobie there were a thousand that were a complete waste of time, hence having the vetting process for the system. There is only so much time to filter through all the garbage just to find a tiny little hint of a gem.

The point thats being missed is that no one ever said "don't show new techniques", just get out there and prove they work on the competition mat, then show us. What works in a friendly roll against those of even lesser skill without the stress and pressure of competition isn't even remotely comparable. Those that have never competed, will never understand the difference.

As a white belt I'm super happy that you guys have this system, if this guy was not called out I would have been drilling this not knowing how easy I would get flipped like Bobby said, just because it looked cool and it seemed to work. It saves me from learning bad technique when at this stage I don't know any better.

[Arman Fathi]

In terms of being in twister side and leg-lacing through the opposite leg as to what's usually done, I'd be weary of that given that you're basically taking a step back in the progression of things given you're going into the guys half guard. It almost seems like you're going from twister-side to capoeira pass. I've seen a berimbolo from that exact position before (when your leg is laced and you have your elbow all up in his armpit) so it's not hard to fathom that there would be a truck conversion in there somewhere. But in terms of being flipped, I mean, I'm just LATELY catching the normal truck with maybe 50% efficiency from side-control with the other 50% getting flipped. That's because there are a lot of micro details within the position that, granted, have been hammered out over the years by the higher belts, but is still taking a good while for me to internalize reflexively. Can your version work? Maybe. But like all science, today it is merely a theory, a postulate, a hypothesis. My impression from reading the posts is that competition is the 'real-world' application in this world of science, as a hospital would be the proving ground for clinical research in real science. Working things out in the lab is great, but bring it to the hospital where people are REALLy sick and have unpredictable immune systems, are on different medications, and have crazy ass genetics that throw everything off. Might be a little different than a lab mouse or a lab rat, as you might imagine. If THERE you can have a track record of success, then the FDA might get your back. Think of the Admin and moderator as the FDA. They gotta keep the checks and balances going. Interesting video tho.

[David Rosado]

Sometimes less experienced grapplers can see things that those with experience may not.

I like the leg lace variation and would not have discovered that myself, irrespective of the loose basics. Guys we gotta remember that there are still many, many places out there that have not had the finer points of the system drilled into them yet. For instance, me and mick have been training with future 10th Planet Budapest and they are really going places despite not having the kind of support that exists in the more established 10P zones.

It reminds me of when Eddie was shown a new way of getting to double bagger on an MTS by a guy doing his first seminar. The dude looked outside the box and came up with a nice little detail. Did Eddie question his guard and all the finer points that make a world champions guard great? No. Because regardless of belt we can all learn from one another. Now we all understand the importance of what Zog is saying and there are rules to stop shitty techniques being shared but once in a while something different comes from somewhere we didn't expect.

For what it's worth, I appreciate where you're coming from. It's very open minded. That's a good thing. But you have to be careful with what you let in. It's not wise to dedicate any time to a move that has only been theorized and not proven. You'll have a hard time finding a BJJ org as open minded at 10th planet. But it has to be tried and tested.

Matter fact, I'll give you a good example. The Logeoplata. Eddie said, pull it off in competition. Logan didn't get upset. He went and started tapping guys in multiple competition with the Logeoplata. Then Eddie started playing with it. Now we have the Logeoplata AND gogo clinch game. All you gotta do is go out there and prove it works.

[NameLikeNoOther]

The Ronin Filter. Thank you Zog!

[bobby rivers]

Exactly homies. This isn't an ego stroke. I've been there. Starving for knowledge and testing viable techs. But the truth is I wasted time because of this. Next to not starting or quitting, the most dangerous variable in jj is an inexperienced/bad instructor leading you down an ineffective or vulnerable path.

Innovate, play, experiment all you want and yes, this is good. But don't present new results as options until they are proven. Instead bring them up as just that. Options to be tested. Not as an instructor seeking praise and recognition, but as a student seeking growth.

Chris, you compete and train your ass off. I dig YOUR style.

[gene k]

I was watching random vids and a position similar to this came up

Around 12:40
https://youtu.be/QeUNqbov8yI?t=763

[Enrique "Kiko"]

you have to be careful with what you let in. It's not wise to dedicate any time to a move that has only been theorized and not proven.

How about these?

[Ben Eddy]

Brown or black to show new moves is a BS rule. How often has a blue or purple shown you a useful detail or their own variation in a spot they've mastered on their own? That's one of the best things about the sport is that you can discover new transitions, details etc. all the way along your journey.

You guys clearly have plenty of time, you're spending 7 pages explaining how you don't want your time wasted.. ..

Relax a little. Sharing is good. I don't think we should discourage sharing on the forum, especially given this is 10th planet. We literally specialize in odd new moves.

When someone shares something that obviously wasn't tested live, it will be obvious, and we can point that out and move on without being dicks about it. The 'humvee' leg tie up here looks interesting. Yes, his entry is dangerous which he might not have yet felt because of lack of live application or maybe just lack of partners awareness of the knee. But, maybe you can get to the position through other routes? How about securing it in a slow samurai roll? I don't know, I'll have to play around with it. And that will take me what? 10-15 mins during class? My pleasure. Gets my brain thinking in a different direction if nothing else.

[Chris Herzog]

Only blackbelts showing techniques has NEVER been a rule.As I said before the brown belt rules was ORIGINALLY the rule, that was put in place by Eddie (which he put me in charge of enforcing here as the forum moderater). All thats being asked now is that it has been tested in competition with success before being posted, why is this so hard to comprehend or get behind? You may think its obvious (supporting my point that a experienced grappler can see that), however it's clearly not obvious to newer guys what has and hasn't been tested live, which is one of the reasons for the vetting process.

There have been a number of phonies and charlatans that where exposed and booted for claiming false ranks and posting techniques over the years. We've had several fake black and brown belts that came here looking for validation or props trying to attach 10th Planet to their name, draggin us down with them. We've had that in the past and in nearly destroyed 10th Planet's credibility, likely before your time. A vetting process is a necessity.