EBI 10 - Questions

[Craig Murray]

This is why Geo won, I don't see the confusion.

Clearly that is not a deadzone. Thanks for posting the pic, hopefully it helps people understand the rule.

[Arman Fathi]

Noted. The tape don't lie. It does not preclude however the possibility of other dead zones existing within the confines of the rules. And I would counter the notion that the crucifix is not a dead zone. The guy on defense has no real options for offense, and he's a step away from an arm submission or choke.

The ref called it right

[Craig Murray]

And I would counter the notion that the crucifix is not a dead zone. The guy on defense has no real options for offense, and he's a step away from an arm submission or choke.

I don't understand ... crucifix is not a deadzone, but the guy on defense is 1 step away from tapping? You mean it IS a deadzone? I'm guessing if you transitioned from mount to crucifix the match would continue. Am I wrong about that?

[Arman Fathi]

Yes, I am of the notion that it is with no ambiguity a dead zone in the right hands. As is the kimura trap, truck, spiderweb, and back.

[Craig Murray]

Yes, I am of the notion that it is with no ambiguity a dead zone in the right hands. As is the kimura trap, truck, spiderweb, and back.

oh, i wasn't thinking clearly. If mount was an OT dead zone you could pick, perhaps you could transition to crucifix. But how can you transition to a crucifix from the back without leaving a deadzone? Is that possible? (forgive my whitebelt knowledge)

You start in a deadzone. If you stay in one, or transition from one to another, it's fine. If you attempt a submission but lose position with the submission attempt still going, you're fine. But as soon as you are both not in a dead zone, and not in an submission attempt, the game is over.

[Chris Herzog]

This is why Geo won, I don't see the confusion.

*Edit - this is immediately after Geo pulled his arm free and before Eddie entangled the legs.

as I explained, it wasn't a position that leads to a submission. This is nothing.

[Chris Herzog]

You start in a deadzone. If you stay in one, or transition from one to another, it's fine. If you attempt a submission but lose position with the submission attempt still going, you're fine. But as soon as you are both not in a dead zone, and not in an submission attempt, the game is over.

correct.

[Arman Fathi]

oh, i wasn't thinking clearly. If mount was an OT dead zone you could pick, perhaps you could transition to crucifix. But how can you transition to a crucifix from the back without leaving a deadzone? Is that possible? (forgive my whitebelt knowledge)

You start in a deadzone. If you stay in one, or transition from one to another, it's fine. If you attempt a submission but lose position with the submission attempt still going, you're fine. But as soon as you are both not in a dead zone, and not in an submission attempt, the game is over.

Yes. Transitioning from the back to the crucifix, you would apply the kimura trap on one side of a guys upper body then triangle your legs on the other arm. You may not see it as common because it requires you to lose your back hooks. You would use your kimura trap to swim through your underhooking side and palm your head, to keep his arm away from his body. With the other arm crucifixed, he has no way to block the choke other than to tuck his chin. It's easier to show than explain, but yes the crucifix is a dead zone transition from another dead zone. I would recommend investing in these techniques and gaining knowledge in them, they're useful.

The mount is not an OT dead zone. It would imaginatively be harder to get the crucifix from mount because the crucifix requires having the guys back.

[Arman Fathi]

oh, i wasn't thinking clearly. If mount was an OT dead zone you could pick, perhaps you could transition to crucifix. But how can you transition to a crucifix from the back without leaving a deadzone? Is that possible? (forgive my whitebelt knowledge)

You start in a deadzone. If you stay in one, or transition from one to another, it's fine. If you attempt a submission but lose position with the submission attempt still going, you're fine. But as soon as you are both not in a dead zone, and not in an submission attempt, the game is over.

Are you still at Lovato's? I'm quite certain a lot of people would know the crucifix there.

[Keith D]

This is why Geo won, I don't see the confusion.

*Edit - this is immediately after Geo pulled his arm free and before Eddie entangled the legs.

Well you see my confusion came from the fact the Eddie Cummings is still controlling his leg.. AS Geo is in the process of escaping, and AS Eddie Cummings is in the process of transferring to this leg lock attempt, and yes it wouldve been an attempt had the match been allowed to continue. Your picture demonstrates that perfectly, and the fact that Eddie Cummings had Geo's leg FULLY entangled, shortly after this picture, doesn't help the confusion. I wasn't aware any submission attempts had be in deadzones (even though I didn't realize the Crucifix was considered a "DeadZone"), I was under the impression that if you were going for a sub, doesn't matter which one, that match continued... In fact, if I remember correctly, this was brought up at an EBI rules meeting, I saw a video of, where Eddie Cummings was actually used as an example, saying that if he transferred to a leg lock the match would continue... Also doesn't help with the confusion.