Alternatives to the full rubber guard game

[tenkati]

I was talking to a 10th planet practitioner yesterday, and he told me people that only play position such as dead orchard or muddy waters can have just as effective as a game as people who use the full rubber guard path that leads to the invisible collar and all that. Only using a few high guards like the dead orchard seems so limited in your attack options, but maybe that is a good thing. Do you guys agree with what this 10th planet guy told me?

[sean applegate]

Those positions are just like anything else in jiu jitsu. If you get really good at the controls, timing, and movements involved with them, you will have a ton of success.
Example: nathan orchards "dead orchard" is extremely practicrd and fine tuned, so you see him having a ton of success with not only killing from there, but getting there on good players as well. Any one high percentage technique can be that way for you.

Now imagine this, you have a guy who has put that much time and energy into all of the positions and transitions in the rubber guard. Now all of your attacks are at that level.

So yes, you can have a lot of success with just one really practiced and polished position, but striving to practice them all and have them all at that level is the goal.

[Tori Applegate]

Agreed.

[tenkati]

Is anyone really at that level with the rubber guard yet though? It seems like a lot of successful 10th planet guard players are more specialized.

[sean applegate]

Is anyone perfect? Nope. Its always the goal though.

[Ben Eddy]

I personally don't ever go the traditional invisible collar to gogo route. I actually never go gogo. I just don't like it. On a guy with good RG defense it just seems like best case you're ending up with an omo to a sweep (because omos are extremely hard to finish) or he busts out and you've lost the position. Of course I likely just need to polish my ability to finish there. My perspective is that it's very hard to get someone into full guard in the first place. So if I get them there, I want to keep them there until I find a finish.

I feel like I still got a lot to feel out in RG though, I could see it changing, this is just how I currently play.

[Arman Fathi]

My flexibility, tho improved, is still at like level 1 or 2, prolly 1.5. So relatively speaking, it's kinda shitty. But I've started to combine GI and no GI principles and filtering into jiu claw pretty nicely, and I've been developing game from there to improve my finishing efficiency, as well as throwing in a slew of other attacks like the carni, hazelett, triangles (improving my efficiency with that a lot too, big time) etc. You get outta something whatever you invest in it. I rolled with Clark Gracie GI and nogi and he's mastered the entire position, every control, every transition, and every possible defense just because he's invested a lot in it. He's not even that flexible either. He uses parallel & perpendicular jiu claw, jiu claw A, jiu claw B, all the control principles, ice picks like an absolute BOSS, all the arm attacks, EVERYthing I've read or seen in the 10p system he had down pat, and then some. You just get demoralized once he enters his world not only cuz of his razor-sharp timing, but the fact that he has answers for every counter pre-programmed into his DNA. Obviously the positions to him don't have the names and I learned to give them names from 10th planet, but he abuses people in that world and you almost PRAY that he'd take the free triangle. Who's to say the jiu claw path has to be a last resort? He came to our school and wasted everyone, and I mean EVERYone, with his game. Keep in mind, this was NoGi. Take away the GI and he's still bloody dangerous. I only use him or Ben Saunders as an example, but your game will be a reflection of your investments. I love seeing specialists. They give clarity and develop details from certain positions just because they've invested a ton of time in it. It's good to be well rounded and have a diverse knowledge base, but there's also something to be said about having an A-game and being able to catch anyone on the planet with the one attack that they know you're gonna throw at them. It's the beauty of jiu jitsu.