Rener Gracie speaks on Eddie Bravo

[Brent Smith]

Good point, those particular moves do t require much flexibility, but they require constant squeezing pressure to be effective. That's a principle from Bravo's books. To be effective means training for some static strength. Twister, Dogfight, Spiderweb and the truck also count on a opponent being within 30 lbs of your weight to latch onto limbs and control tightly. The whip up in particular requires too much core strength for me personally, I have a weak core and can barely do that on ppl my size. Its hard to make an argument that 10P was created for everyone rather than athletes.

Being 155 lbs (and that's the heaviest I've ever been) I've pulled off every single one of the moves you mentioned on guys over 200 lbs. Not sure where you got the notion that an opponent needs to be "within 30 lbs to latch onto limbs and control tigtly." Its all about repetition and good technique not how much someone weighs.

[Borislav Kirilov]

In my opinion the reason for him saying those things is because they understand very well that the only way to earn money is to promote "their" Jiu Jitsu - Gracie - in which there is nothing wrong. Also when you promote some particular kind of MA you have to prove that it is good in competition. And their competative spirit is much less and less, because they prove to the world how effective BJJ is , what else they need to do??? They did a lot in the past but now, if you want to be good you have to learn more and to improve your game every single day to learn from others, to see what they can put on table! Different people, different styles.

[Lindsey Loewen]

Just a rough estimate based on my experience with the techniques, I have no doubt that my technique sucks, however would you concede that said techniques are dependent on building a strong core through "repetitions"? Would you also concede that the core strength and explosiveness needed for say; Whip-Up to Dogfight would be found in a small female against someone far out of her weight class?

[Lindsey Loewen]

That's a awesome point. If we asked Starbucks what they think of Joe Mugs coffee, they will have an elaborate answer to why Joe Mugs is excellent competition but you don't need anything past Starbucks. What do you expect the Gracie's to say; "Don't Trust our brand?" I really like the earlier post that summarizes it: Do what you enjoy. People should getting all upset if Rener GRACIE prefers GRACIE Jiu Jitsu.

[Stewart Landry]

Being 155 lbs (and that's the heaviest I've ever been) I've pulled off every single one of the moves you mentioned on guys over 200 lbs. Not sure where you got the notion that an opponent needs to be "within 30 lbs to latch onto limbs and control tigtly." Its all about repetition and good technique not how much someone weighs.

TO add to that Brent, maybe your core strength should be worked on. eg. I remember a story Eddie told when he was around blue belt (feel free to correct me if my details are incorrect) where he had real problems choking out a big bouncer from the strip club that he worked at when he was aloud to put a choke on the guy. He worked on his squeeze and months later easily choked the guy. To say that you can win with just technique would be nice but its not always true. It may even be safe to say that the guy Eddie was trying to choke wasnt the average built guy and capable of resisting more than the average guy, but if you are taking an art for self defense and it doesnt work on everyone but you pretend it does then you are fooling yourself. Even the techniques that the Gracies teach take mass repetition and athletic ability to perform on guys of better than average skill and athletic ability, and unless you are the one picking the fights (which really wouldnt be considered self defense, maybe self offense?) then its a moot point to say that you shouldnt work on 10th stuff because you need particular physical abilities to perform them as that even "basic"JJ takes physical attributes to pull off on better than average opponents or opponents that are more than 30lbs heavier. Also to add to the 30lb thing ... I have around 30 pounds on Denny, Eddie Einstien and Im probably stronger than them (Eddie told as much) and yet they can all catch me using the techniques that you just said dont work on guys that are 30lbs heavier. Repetition and free rolling bring lots of your physical attributes way up, but even if you are only training for "self defense" you are kidding yourself if you dont think that working on your core or flexability arent important factors that every martial artist should work on.
Haters gonna hate I guess ....

[Stewart Landry]

That's a awesome point. If we asked Starbucks what they think of Joe Mugs coffee, they will have an elaborate answer to why Joe Mugs is excellent competition but you don't need anything past Starbucks. What do you expect the Gracie's to say; "Don't Trust our brand?" I really like the earlier post that summarizes it: Do what you enjoy. People should getting all upset if Rener GRACIE prefers GRACIE Jiu Jitsu.

Good point do what you enjoy, but also realize that the reason guys are attacking the opinion is because it is attacking what we do. I dont have a problem with GJJ at all its what led us all directly or in directly to training in JJ and for most on this forum to PJJ. However you came on the forum making statements about what we do and what is needed to perform our style. As that the things we typically train arent the same as what you do, how can you make a judgement call on our system if you arent an expert on what we do. Apparently you dont know how 10 do Discrediting something to make yours look more appealing is a weak way of doing things. Promote what it is that you do with out discrediting others. Read Eddies testimonials, he credits the Gracies for what we have, and expanded on it.

[Stewart Landry]

Just a rough estimate based on my experience with the techniques, I have no doubt that my technique sucks, however would you concede that said techniques are dependent on building a strong core through "repetitions"? Would you also concede that the core strength and explosiveness needed for say; Whip-Up to Dogfight would be found in a small female against someone far out of her weight class?

Again see the story of Eddie and the bouncer ... I believe a RNC is a "basic" GJJ technique that wasnt being pulled off against a larger opponent, and working on squeeze was the solution. Self defense is still fighting, fighting an opponent that you dont get to choose ..... so size etc isnt a choice. Size and strength can and will have an effect on the effectiveness of plenty of techniques and if you pretend otherwise you are kidding yourself. I feel that your statements are more against having hard work ethic than our system. Flexability can be gained as can strength, and all forms of fighting are better if you build those assets. Do you think that a female way out of her weight category can RNC her assailant? Eddie couldnt to the much larger bouncer ... til he worked on his squeeze. He tried to adjust technique and probably found a few things to fix but it was squeeze that fixed the problem. He didnt put on 30lbs ... he put on squeeze strength. Train what you want and do what you enjoy. GJJ is very effective and I love what it has brought us, but you cant honestly come on a forum and make statements about what we do and why what you do is better (even if its only "better for the average Joe") and not expect some static back. Besides its kinda weak to say what we do isnt good, when in reality the foundation of what we do is the same as GJJ, then added to. Its a huge misconception that our guys dont do the basics/fundamentals/traditional (or whatever you want to refer to GJJ as) as well ....

[Louis Ho]

Mr. Landry makes some excellent points.

[bobby rivers]

Just a rough estimate based on my experience with the techniques, I have no doubt that my technique sucks, however would you concede that said techniques are dependent on building a strong core through "repetitions"? Would you also concede that the core strength and explosiveness needed for say; Whip-Up to Dogfight would be found in a small female against someone far out of her weight class?

Yes, a strong core heps in any athletic endeavor.

[Chris Herzog]

Rickson focused alot of strength and conditioning along with Yoga, to peak his strength and flexibility to enhance his Jiu Jitsu. Check out the documentary "Choke" the show a considerable about of his S&C training along with his Yoga practice.