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Thread: 50/50 Question

  1. #11

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    I think Herzog refers to it as a reaper.. essentially the setup that leads to the leg knot. It's okay though, I think you answered my question.

  2. #12

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    Now I get ya. The reaper from x-guard is very easy, Herzog posted pics of steps on the forum but i'm not sure what thread. If your on facebook check my page or his and you'll find them.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scott Yockel View Post
    Now I get ya. The reaper from x-guard is very easy, Herzog posted pics of steps on the forum but i'm not sure what thread. If your on facebook check my page or his and you'll find them.
    The pic sequences was the reaper to the calf crush/knee compression and to the back, not the ankle lock/heel hook though.

    AJ I'n not sure why you'd want to take the long road and go 50/50 to X-Guard to the Reaper(it reminds me of the game shoots and ladders, you climb up the ladder towards the finish only to come down the slide to work your way back up again). If your in the 50/50, by your own attack, I'd suggest to work a finish from there.

    That being said what is more likely to happen, and Scott and I both use this when we aren't able to secure the knee knot from the reaper and opponent spins out, it is a very easy transition from the attempted knee knot to 50/50 right into the inverteed heel hook. So in a round about way yes the inside triangle (Clamp,Wedge and Knot)can be used in coordination with 50/50, however it is much easier imho to transition from the the inside to the outside (50/50) , than the other way around.
    Last edited by Chris Herzog; 12-02-2010 at 09:14 AM.
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  4. #14
    Chris Herzog's Avatar
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    Heres the link to the thread Scott was referring to:

    http://www.10thplanetjj.com/threads/...ghlight=reaper
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  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Herzog View Post
    So in a round about way yes the inside triangle (Clamp,Wedge and Knot)can be used in coordination with 50/50, however it is much easier imho to transition from the the inside to the outside (50/50) , than the other way around.

    Thats what i was trying to say You just said it way better...

  6. #16
    Quote Originally Posted by Eddie Bravo View Post
    Jason Eisner can help you with this one, he's a 50/50 maniac
    Obrigado Mestre! I love the 50/50, but I'm no Ryan Hall. LOL. I have only been studying the 50/50 now for about a year and a half, but I plan to put in crazy numbers and hopefully be super good at it in the future.

    I think people on this thread already answered Griffin's question, but I can try and help a little too.

    @ Griffin...going from the 50/50 to the high outside leg knot would be very unusual and would take a serious number of steps that would be very difficult. If your opponent is really unskilled in the position and they aren't protecting their legs at all, you could potentially make the transition, however, if they are that unskilled, I would think you would want to stay in the 50/50 and submit them from there.

    @ AJ...people use X Guard to enter into the 50/50, but the reverse would be difficult because of the position of your opponents leg. I'm not saying it is impossible, but I haven't seen it done. Usually when your opponent stands up incorrectly in the 50/50, as a 50/50 player you would bring them back down to the mat, or if they are skilled in the position, you would do what is known as a 50/50 reset to continue coming back to the position.

    @ Scott..."high outside" is the way some Sambo players refer to the position shown in Griffin's image posted above. However they usually refer to it as "high side outside," or "high side outside leg knot." Reilly Bodycomb made this terminology somewhat known within the system when he filmed a seminar at the now defunct 10th Planet Dallas Ft. Worth.
    Last edited by Jason Eisner; 12-02-2010 at 10:49 AM.

  7. #17

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    Thanks for the details Jason, even a sambo guy can learn something about sambo I guess. I have seen some of reilly stuff on video and on the mat before.

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chris Herzog View Post

    AJ I'n not sure why you'd want to take the long road and go 50/50 to X-Guard to the Reaper(it reminds me of the game shoots and ladders, you climb up the ladder towards the finish only to come down the slide to work your way back up again). If your in the 50/50, by your own attack, I'd suggest to work a finish from there.
    We can't do heel hooks during training so I was just wondering if there was a magical segue between the two positions. I see what you mean though, Scott's explanation kind of demonstrated the absurdity of working backwards to the X guard out of 50/50.

    I have a cage grappling tournament coming up (heel hooks and slams allowed) so I'm just asking weird question to maximize opportunities to hit the leg knot. Some of the MMA guys out here are pretty clueless so I'd rather not blow out some kooks knee via a heel hook because I'm pretty sure none of these random guys are going to know what's up and they probably won't tap to it.

    Oh well.. I got's to get over it.

  9. #19
    Here's the only transition I've ever used successfully to go from 50/50 to a high outside attack.

    The first step is to pass your opponents leg across your body. The first way is the most obvious; push up on the triangling leg with that same side arm, and then pull the foot you normally would inverted heel hook across with your other arm. You'll have to extend and retract your hips to get the quickest switch.

    Usually subterfuge is required, so I'll attack the top leg to bait them into moving the inverted heel hook foot. Once it moves at all, I'm going to rip it across before they re-triangle. Examples of feinted attacks are swimming under the top leg, and trying to inverted heel hook it (I have about a .01% chance of getting this, but people will usually react) or straight ankle it.

    Once the leg is passed, I need to control the free leg. If they are able to stand up, they're going to sprawl or smash my legs down and pull out, and I've lost everything. Usually I'll have the foot I just passed overhooked, and grabbing the free leg with my other hand. I'll use one of two grips; either grapping their foot like a toe hold and pulling, or cupping their heel like a wine glass with my elbow planted into the floor. Emphasis pulling their leg away. Every inch they get in retracting the leg is an inch of power.

    Safely transitioning the legs has to be done a little quickly. If the guy isn't fooling with my legs too hard, I'll just quickly shrimp my hips out, away from the guy, and bring both my feet inside, looking for a leg knot. Usually things never go this nice. You have two options.

    The first option is to take your not-in-danger-of-being-inverted-heel-hooked-leg and front kick his same-side armpit. This isn't going to stop him from heel hooking you forever, but it will slow him down just enough. From here you'll bring your heel hooking leg inside as you scoot out, and hook underneath his free leg at the knee pit (kind of like a butterfly hook, hooking under the knee pit and lifting up). This provides you with a lot more security in keeping him from standing up.

    The other option is more of a hail mary, BUT it is a lot simpler with less steps they can screw up for you. Once you've passed the leg across, you're going to DIVE over to your belly, FOREHEAD on the ground. You should look like a little bridge, points of contact being your head and your knees. As you're going over, untriangle your legs, and pull your danger-of-being-inverted-heel-hooked-leg out from between his legs, and lay your shin in his knee pit, with your foot pointing away from his body. From here, you're going to finish rolling, and as your rolling, lift with your in-the-knee-pit-shin, making enough space to thread the leg knot.

    Note, that from belly down you can also try and finish the ankle lock if your ankle locks are tight.

    This second move is a hail mary. Don't depend on it, because it can screw up. The other move has a decent amount of steps for them to screw up, but if you remain patient it should be ok. If they start to stand up before you can roll or front kick their arm pit, you need to untriangle immediately and get ready to work something else.

  10. #20
    I forgot to write something!

    The first option is to take your not-in-danger-of-being-inverted-heel-hooked-leg and front kick his same-side armpit. This isn't going to stop him from heel hooking you forever, but it will slow him down just enough. From here you'll bring your heel hooking leg inside as you scoot out, and hook underneath his free leg at the knee pit (kind of like a butterfly hook, hooking under the knee pit and lifting up). This provides you with a lot more security in keeping him from standing up.
    After this, your next battle is going to be getting your outside foot inside to reap the knee and start the knot. Since you have good control over the free leg though, you have a little more time to try and free your leg than usual. If the guy starts to attack your front kick leg and it is too dangerous, depending on how far you are (i.e., having the butterfly-hook on his knee pit or still having the leg exposed), you should roll or retriangle and start over.

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