douche moves

[Isaac Atley]

i personally think calf crushers and bicep crushers are great. ive been looking for them quite a bit lately. they hurt way more than msot people can take before any damage is done. unlike things such as the heel hook. the reason i dont like some moves is because they dont seem very sportsmanlike, maybe its me just being a softie, but i feel like a fist choke is about as easy as a 600 pound man sitting on a child and calling it a submission.

i like the difference of knowing a dirty technique and using them. its a bit like the peace keepers vs soldiers, peace keepers wait until theyre shot at until the fire back. i dont generally use dirty techniques, knee on face, knuckle in rib, etc but if they start it ill finish it.

[AKRhino]

I only care if they have zits or sweat gets on my lips, otherwise fuckin' post up, im not getting any prettier anyhow.

All I'm saying is, if you're gonna sit in my guard and grind your forehead into my face, I'm gonna think you're a dick.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

you'd be correct. I wouldn't do it to guys i wasn't friends with outside of comp unless that was the style at their gym.

Remember though, the goal isn't simply to cause pain/discomfort, it is to distract the mind from other aspects of the battle. They should be actually trying to accomplish something while grinding your face.

[Isaac Atley]

you'd be correct. I wouldn't do it to guys i wasn't friends with outside of comp unless that was the style at their gym.

Remember though, the goal isn't simply to cause pain/discomfort, it is to distract the mind from other aspects of the battle. They should be actually trying to accomplish something while grinding your face.

in saying that, i think there are better ways to distract etc than grind your forehead into someones face etc. some of them are effective but have easy counters. i think id rather be a guy that uses nice techniques to win and not be a dick rather than being a dick and winning.

[Ryan Brick]

I think douchy moves have a time and place, everytime I mount my student BBoy that bastard hip bumbs me and everyone else right off. So as I take mount I get him with the D2 until his hands move off my hips then I stop D2 and go to head and armpit

I think a move only become douchy when it has no point and i keep doing it, like the example above I would do but then once i trap his arm i wont keep dropping my elbow into his neck. IMO that would be the douchy part.

[Genrri]

some devious douchery caught on video...




I think slams are all too prevalent in competition, and most practitioners aren't aware of the danger they place themselves when jumping guard. But there's some devious douchery going on, when someone scoops you up and drops you on your head, back, or arms breaking them.

[Matthew Edlund]

I personally don't roll like a douche. I'd rather get tapped or not hurt my training partners so I can continue the reputation of being a good training partner.

My line of thought when it's the other way around is there are no douchey moves, someone wants to kick me in the balls & eye gouge me, go for it. If I can fight through it & still tap you then all you did was make me tougher, test my self control and help me advance. I feel bad for people that have the desire to abuse training partners. They obviously have some ego issues.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

in saying that, i think there are better ways to distract etc than grind your forehead into someones face etc.

What are the better ways? Seems like its more about having a variety of options rather than picking the best to use, especially because these are things that you do while working on other goals not in stead.

i think id rather be a guy that uses nice techniques to win and not be a dick rather than being a dick and winning.

You're giving a false choice. A large part of the grappling world doesnt consider this stuff "being a dick"

If these things bother you then they are doing exactly what they are supposed to.

I personally don't roll like a douche. I'd rather get tapped or not hurt my training partners so I can continue the reputation of being a good training partner.

My line of thought when it's the other way around is there are no douchey moves, someone wants to kick me in the balls & eye gouge me, go for it. If I can fight through it & still tap you then all you did was make me tougher, test my self control and help me advance. I feel bad for people that have the desire to abuse training partners. They obviously have some ego issues.

kick you in the balls/ gouge your eye? are we on the same thread here?

When Zog spoke the thread died, what could i say that carries more weight?

[Isaac Atley]

[QUOTE=Aaron Gustaveson;193826]What are the better ways? Seems like its more about having a variety of options rather than picking the best to use, especially because these are things that you do while working on other goals not in stead.

so i think u made the example of pushing your forehead into them when in their guard. this either means your arms dont have as much weight on them so tehy are easier to attack, your balance is on your head so its easier to sweep or you make gaps which are easier to move in. mcuh rather play a safer game when in a persons guard like what most people do.



You're giving a false choice. A large part of the grappling world doesnt consider this stuff "being a dick"

i guess for me, its really the intent. (i study ethics so i think about it a lot sorry) i liek the idea of sportsmanship, i think doing a douche move really gives me an advantage unless they are willing to do it aswell. personally i dont want people to be a douche to me when im rolling so i wont be to them. kind of the golden rule idea. and just because its a part of grappling doesnt mean its not a douche thing to do. it just means a bunch of grapplers are douches.

aside from that jiu jitsu is about the submission of someone, not the injury of someone and once you bring the douche moves into it, the lines of whats allowed become blurred and thats when mistakes are made. someone pushes too ahrd or doesnt a really douche move.

If these things bother you then they are doing exactly what they are supposed to.

another douche thing that hasnt been raised is pushing your cup into people when rolling. personally ill never rll without a cup, but following your concept of what should be allowed, pressing your cup into someones back or something is a good idea. to me thats just being rude.

and finally if you do them then eventually you can rely on them and then there are people on whom they dont work, nice moves are fine because they are accepted, but a douche move that doesnt work? that just pisses the other person off and then youve got a problem.

[Aaron Gustaveson]

Agreeing to have the conversation using the term "douche moves" is like talking about abortion using the term pro-life.

so i think u made the example of pushing your forehead into them when in their guard. this either means your arms dont have as much weight on them so tehy are easier to attack, your balance is on your head so its easier to sweep or you make gaps which are easier to move in. mcuh rather play a safer game when in a persons guard like what most people do.

Im not sure the forehead grinding was my example but posture is what keeps your arms from being attacked not weight on them. Balance is always important and you dont have to compromise it to do this. I dont think you appreciate the skill involved, you dont just stick your ass up and grind your head down on them, usually you will see guys pushing upward (toward the direction of the head as well as grinding down. I get people to the chopping block often when they reach up to address the head pressure (which is often under their chin not on their forehead) Jiujitsu is nerley endless counters to counters so many very accepted and legit techniques open you up to counters (that doesn’t negate them)

i guess for me, its really the intent. (i study ethics so i think about it a lot sorry) i liek the idea of sportsmanship, i think doing a douche move really gives me an advantage unless they are willing to do it aswell. personally i dont want people to be a douche to me when im rolling so i wont be to them. kind of the golden rule idea.

For me, I’m tough, this stuff doesn't bother me physically. I respect the people I roll with enough to assume that they are tough as well (golden rule). I want people to give their best under the rules (sportsmanship) not assume I’m so delicate that I can’t handle pain or discomfort.

and just because its a part of grappling doesnt mean its not a douche thing to do. it just means a bunch of grapplers are douches.

It’s part of the sport but still douchey when you do it? Example Tripping people is a douchey thing to do (on the street) when you’re playing a sport where that's allowed in the rules then it is not. Linemen basically push each other in American football, we all know its mean to push people and according to your reasoning just because it’s part of the game, it’s no less douchey. I guess judokas are a bunch of assholes, always throwing each other down?

aside from that jiu jitsu is about the submission of someone, not the injury of someone and once you bring the douche moves into it, the lines of whats allowed become blurred and thats when mistakes are made. someone pushes too ahrd or doesnt a really douche move.

The rule set is the rules set, doing everything inside the rules doesnt change them.

another douche thing that hasnt been raised is pushing your cup into people when rolling. personally ill never rll without a cup, but following your concept of what should be allowed, pressing your cup into someones back or something is a good idea. to me thats just being rude.

I dont think that cups should be allowed, that's a problem with the rules set IMO. If they are allowed then you better get used to dealing with whatever pain they can cause so hopefully you have training partners that aren't babying you and you can learn to negate the cup.

and finally if you do them then eventually you can rely on them and then there are people on whom they dont work, nice moves are fine because they are accepted, but a douche move that doesnt work? that just pisses the other person off and then youve got a problem.

What problem do I have? My opnt is emotional and probably not able to think at their best? They are distracted from the fight? Are they going to hulk out on me?

You are starting down a slippery slope of labeling all sorts of things as "douchey" can openers, heel hooks, slices, even reaping the knee for christ sake. If something like the rape choke is not respectable to you because it is "easier" to apply than some other chokes then, you could extend your logic saying that going for the most technical submissions possible is most respectable.
Thing is if you’re not trying to win within the rule set then aren't you disrespecting your opnt by not giving them your best fight? Aren't you doing your training partners a disservice by not allowing them to become familiar with these legal techniques?